NOTE / توجه
------------------
Due to structural technical issues in establishing an effective channel of communication with nonviolent Iranians inside the country, the activities of this peace-building effort has been temporarily suspended.
به دلیل مشکلات فنی ساختاری در برقراری یک کانال ارتباطی موثر با ایرانیان خشونت پرهیز داخل کشور, فعالیت این تلاش صلحساز موقتا به حالت تعلیق در آمده است
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
فایل های صوتی و خلاصه دوزبانه اتاق های قبلی کلاب "خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی" را در ذیل همین صفحه (و صفحات آرشیوی مربوط به آن) خواهید یافت
The sound files and the bilingual summaries of the previous rooms of the "Iranian Nonviolence" club are below, on this page--and its related archive pages.
--------------------------------------------------------
برای بازگشت به صفحه اصلی و پیدا کردن لینک اتاق بعدی لینک زیر را کلیک فرمائید
To return to the main page--and to find the
link of our club's next room, click here:
*******************************************************
سخنرانی های حضوری مجتبی آقامحمدی در باره پروژه خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی
Moji Agha's in-person talks about the Iranian Nonviolence initiative:
- Monday, April 10, 2023, 7:30 to 8:30 PM (Tucson, Arizona)
See part of this English language presentation here:
SUMMARY--Provided by the Veterans For Peace (VFP--Chapter 13) in Southern Arizona, U.S.
Featured Speaker - Moji Agha is Founder of the the Iranian Nonviolence (IN), a bilingual (English-Persian) initiative: https://iranian-
- Thursday, April 13, 2023:
Las Cruces, New Mexico (10 AM to Noon)
Albuquerque, New Mexico (6:30 to 8:30 PM)
- Friday, April 14, 2023, 6:30 to 9:00 PM (Santa Fe, New Mexico)
See this English language presentation here: Link coming soon
*******************************************************
NOTE /// توجه
آرشیو کامل نشست های یکم تا نهم اتاق خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی در این صفحه است
For the full archive of the Iranian Nonviolence room's sessions 1 thru 9 go to this page:
https://iranian-
*******************************************************
Session (18) -- Sunday, May 14, 2023
نشست (18) -- یکشنبه 24 اردیبهشت 1402
SEE THE SESSION'S ANNOUCEMENT, BELOW // لطفا اعلامیه این نشست را در زیر ببینید
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
PARTIAL SOUND FILE -- DUE TO TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES
فایل صوتی بخش اول نشست -- که به دلیل مشکلات فنی ناقص است
Guest: Richard Forer; American author, lecturer and peace activist
مهمان: ریچارد فورر؛ نویسنده, سخنران, و فعال صلح آمریکایی
TOPIC: How a "Zionist" American Jew became a nonviolent advocate for Palestine
موضوع: چگونه یک آمریکایی یهودی-صهیونیست به یک هوادار خشونت پرهیز فلسطین تبدیل شد
Weekly room >> Sunday, May 14, 2023 -- 11:30 AM (Pacific/California time)
یکشنبه -- 24 اردیبهشت 1402، ساعت 10 شب -- به وقت ایران >> اتاق هفتگی
ZOOM: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/84964553179
Meeting ID: 849 6455 3179 ** Passcode: peace
CLUBHOUSE: https://www.clubhouse.com/invite/xwRlvA6I
Sunday, May 14, 2023 -- 11:30 AM (Pacific time, Western U.S.)
یکشنبه -- 24 اردیبهشت 1402 -- ساعت ده شب ایران
Guest: Rich Forer, Jewish-American Peace and Human Rights Activist; Author and Public Speaker -- For his entire lifetime, Richard Forer believed Israel to be an innocent nation forever eager to make peace with its neighbors. A member of AIPAC, in 2006 he underwent a profound spiritual awakening that led him to become a nonviolent advocate for Palestinian freedom, to speak widely, and to write two books: Breakthrough: Transforming Fear into Compassion – A New Perspective on the Israel-Palestine Conflict and Wake Up and Reclaim Your Humanity: Essays on the Israel-Palestine Tragedy. Richard has orthodox relatives living in illegal settlements in the West Bank. He has been to the West Bank a few times and has also traveled to the Gaza Strip. مهمان اتاق: ریچ فورر، فعال صلح و حقوق بشر یهودی-آمریکایی؛ نویسنده و سخنران
ریچارد فورر همه عمر خود معتقد بود که اسرائیل یک کشور بیگناه است که همواره مشتاق صلح با همسایگان خود بوده. او که یکی از اعضای لابی اسرائیل در امریکا (یعنی آیپک) بود، در سال 2006 بیداری معنوی عمیقی را تجربه کرد که این تحول باعث شد به یک مدافع خشونت پرهیز آزادی فلسطین تبدیل شود، به طور گسترده سخنرانی کند و دو کتاب بنویسد: پیشرفت: تبدیل شدن ترس به شفقت - دیدگاهی جدید در مورد اسرائیل و فلسطین, و درگیری و بیدار شدن, و باز پس گیری انسانیت: مقالاتی در مورد تراژدی اسرائیل و فلسطین. ریچارد اقوام یهودی افراطی دارد که در شهرک های غیرقانونی در کرانه باختری زندگی می کنند. او چند بار به این منطقه و به نوار غزه سفر کرده است
Corrected bilingual written summary coming soon...
Moji welcomed everyone to the Clubhouse and ZOOM. He explained that, in America, today is
Mother’s Day. Moji extended greetings to ALL mothers around the world.
Today’s special guest speaker is Mr. Richard (Rich) Forer. He is a Jewish American, a peace
and nonviolence activist, lecturer, and author. The topic is, “How a ‘Zionist’ American Jew
Became a Nonviolent Advocate for Palestine”. Rich has traveled extensively in Israel and has
many Israeli relatives. For much of his life, Rich believed Israel to be an innocent nation, eager
to make peace with all its neighboring countries. He was a member of the American Israel
Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a U.S. lobbying group that advocates pro-Israeli policies to
the U.S. Congress. In 2006, Rich underwent a profound, spiritual awakening, which led him to
become a nonviolent advocate for Palestinian freedom.
Rich Forer’s Presentation:
I want to talk about what I consider to be the most important factor in conflict. That is the
fundamental roots of suffering and conflict are mostly unconscious. I will begin with myself. My
awakening to the humanity to the other freed me from a lifetime of unquestioning loyalty to
Israel. I became able to critique Israeli policies. What I talk about today can be applied to
people’s own lives… beyond just the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (IPC).
The Israeli-Palestinian tragedy is filled with so many false narratives, I consider it an archetype
for conflict and suffering. Its roots are in the collective unconscious. If we can find the
resources to arrive at a just resolution, we could give birth to a global transformation in
consciousness and a new destiny for mankind.
Until July 2006, I believed the Israel-Palestine problem was caused by the Arab world’s non-
acceptance of a Jewish state in their midst. I thought this lack of acceptance resulted from the
hatred people felt toward the Jewish people. I also saw the Christian world as still harboring
anti-Semitic attitudes that had produced centuries of pogroms in eastern Europe. These
pogroms culminated in the Holocaust, the killing of millions of Jews and others because they
were judged to be inferior.
July 12, 2006, Hezbollah killed three Israeli soldiers. Three weeks earlier, Hamas captured an
Israeli soldier. I saw these two things as proof the Arab world would not stop until Israel was
wiped from the face of the world. As a Jew, I saw myself in the place of these victimized
soldiers… I believed Arab terrorists and the Arab world wanted to kill me too, just like the
soldiers.
The day after the Hezbollah raid, in which the three soldiers were killed, Israel invaded
Lebanon. I supported the invasion but was deeply troubled. So, I spoke with two non-Jewish
friends, expecting them to agree that my fears about the Arab world were justified. But they
disagreed. They blamed Israel for using disproportionate force against Lebanon. Later,
alone…I reviewed what my friends had said. I concluded that only Jews could understand the
suffering of our people. At that point, I spoke only with Jewish friends who agreed with me.
A week later, and older Jewish friend, Sam, called to say he wanted to visit me in New Mexico.
I agreed to the visit but started a 2-hour diatribe against Israel’s enemies. Sam listened quietly,
barely saying a word. Sam had studied about Arab Israeli conflicts for years but was quiet
about it. My diatribe finished, Sam quietly suggested I read books by two Israeli professors,
Baruch Kimmerling and Tanya Reinhart, of whom I’d never heard. Sam did not judge me or
argue against my point of view. That gave me the space to snap out of (reconsider) a belief
system I had accepted my entire life. To that point, it did not even occur to me that there was
more to the Arab Israel story than what I already knew. I did not consider that studying could
add to my understanding or that there may be another narrative about the conflict that could
make sense.
I looked up books by Kimmerling and Reinhart and complied a list of books from other authors
but only Jewish authors. I feared non-Jewish authors would be biased. Ironically, I was about
to uncover a lifetime of bias within myself. I checked out several books from the library and
began reading one by Norman Finkelstein. It was about the misuse of antisemitism, which I had
been doing without realizing it. My commitment was to find the truth and separate fact from
fiction.
Finkelstein’s resources were mostly mainstream human rights organizations like Human Rights
Watch and Amnesty International. I could not just dismiss the findings of these organizations.
They documented charges against Israeli soldiers, such as:
1. Using deadly force against unarmed civilians and children,
2. Bulldozing residences, sometimes with people still inside, like crippled people who could
not walk,
3. Stealing desperately needed water from Palestinian villages, and
4. Commonly using torture against Palestinian men and women.
Many of the reports Finkelstein quoted could be found online. I researched those online reports
to ensure Finkelstein was not lying. I had to admit he had been meticulous in every way. I had
to admit the truth. I was shocked at the abuse and humiliation Palestinians are routinely
subjected to at the hands of Israeli soldiers. I was shocked that Israel, a country I had invested
with a lifetime of loyalty, would treat any people this way.
NOTE: At this point the Clubhouse recording ended. The rest of the summary is based solely on
my memory and the brief notes I wrote during the rest of Rich’s presentation.
Over time, my shock became anger that Israel and its soldiers committed these human rights
abuses and unwarranted killings in my name as a Jewish man. Israel was now doing to
Palestinians what had been done to Jews over the centuries and during World War II and the
Holocaust. Eventually, my anger gave way to shame about the human rights abuses and
deaths Israel was inflicting upon the Palestinians. Finally, my shame became sorrow
(compassion) about what the Palestinians were suffering everyday at the hands of Israeli
soldiers and the government of Israel. Having studied the Palestinian Israeli conflict more
deeply and acquired new knowledge, my inner perception and understanding of what was
happening in the world was fundamentally altered. My new state of consciousness allowed me
to see the world differently. I no longer feared or hated Arabs generally or Palestinians
specifically. I did not think of them as enemies. I felt compassion toward those people (others)
who were suffering on both sides of the conflict, including the Palestinians.
What I came to realize is that the world, as each of us understands it, is merely a reflection of
our inner state of consciousness. Our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs, based on what the culture
we’re born into taught us, can become bias, which distorts our perception of the world and limits
our understanding of it. The world is a psycho-physical entity, not an object. To truly
understand the world, we must study it and ourselves deeply in search of truth and acquire
knowledge beyond what our cultural up-bringing has provided. (This is the value of diversity).
Rich described that point in his life as providing a deep, inner peace. He came to realize that
inner peace must be achieved (felt inside) before outer peace in the world can be achieved.
Rich no longer felt Arabs/Palestinians were enemies. We all want the same things. A life of
self-determination; food, shelter, and safety for our family and friends, the right to practice (or
not practice) religion as we see fit, and so forth. This is even true of extremists who, sadly, use
violence. We are all connected by our basic desires in life. This can be summarized by saying,
the usual state of being for humans is having limited information, and therefore limited
understanding. This typically leads to existential fear and confusion. However, seeking and
discovering additional true information and expanding your understanding of the world and its
people can lead to compassion for others and clarity. Then compassion and clarity replace our
existential fears.
Rich said, I came to realize that I am “all people”, not just a Jewish man. By limiting our
knowledge and understanding to what we learned from our birth culture, we end up creating
much of our own suffering. Our identification as only one thing (ex. Jewish, Christian, Muslim),
as a result of our cultural indoctrination, typically results confusion. When we must interact with
the real world, our confusion leads to self-generated suffering. That’s what happened to me for
most of my life, before I read the work of Finkelstein, Kimmerling, Reinhart, and others. I
learned that diversified knowledge was the key to greater understanding of the world, other
people, and their experiences. That freed me from my bias, taught me about my
connectedness to others, eliminated my fear and view of others as enemies, and led to my life
as a peace, nonviolence, and justice advocate.
Mother’s Day. Moji extended greetings to ALL mothers around the world.
Today’s special guest speaker is Mr. Richard (Rich) Forer. He is a Jewish American, a peace
and nonviolence activist, lecturer, and author. The topic is, “How a ‘Zionist’ American Jew
Became a Nonviolent Advocate for Palestine”. Rich has traveled extensively in Israel and has
many Israeli relatives. For much of his life, Rich believed Israel to be an innocent nation, eager
to make peace with all its neighboring countries. He was a member of the American Israel
Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a U.S. lobbying group that advocates pro-Israeli policies to
the U.S. Congress. In 2006, Rich underwent a profound, spiritual awakening, which led him to
become a nonviolent advocate for Palestinian freedom.
Rich Forer’s Presentation:
I want to talk about what I consider to be the most important factor in conflict. That is the
fundamental roots of suffering and conflict are mostly unconscious. I will begin with myself. My
awakening to the humanity to the other freed me from a lifetime of unquestioning loyalty to
Israel. I became able to critique Israeli policies. What I talk about today can be applied to
people’s own lives… beyond just the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (IPC).
The Israeli-Palestinian tragedy is filled with so many false narratives, I consider it an archetype
for conflict and suffering. Its roots are in the collective unconscious. If we can find the
resources to arrive at a just resolution, we could give birth to a global transformation in
consciousness and a new destiny for mankind.
Until July 2006, I believed the Israel-Palestine problem was caused by the Arab world’s non-
acceptance of a Jewish state in their midst. I thought this lack of acceptance resulted from the
hatred people felt toward the Jewish people. I also saw the Christian world as still harboring
anti-Semitic attitudes that had produced centuries of pogroms in eastern Europe. These
pogroms culminated in the Holocaust, the killing of millions of Jews and others because they
were judged to be inferior.
July 12, 2006, Hezbollah killed three Israeli soldiers. Three weeks earlier, Hamas captured an
Israeli soldier. I saw these two things as proof the Arab world would not stop until Israel was
wiped from the face of the world. As a Jew, I saw myself in the place of these victimized
soldiers… I believed Arab terrorists and the Arab world wanted to kill me too, just like the
soldiers.
The day after the Hezbollah raid, in which the three soldiers were killed, Israel invaded
Lebanon. I supported the invasion but was deeply troubled. So, I spoke with two non-Jewish
friends, expecting them to agree that my fears about the Arab world were justified. But they
disagreed. They blamed Israel for using disproportionate force against Lebanon. Later,
alone…I reviewed what my friends had said. I concluded that only Jews could understand the
suffering of our people. At that point, I spoke only with Jewish friends who agreed with me.
A week later, and older Jewish friend, Sam, called to say he wanted to visit me in New Mexico.
I agreed to the visit but started a 2-hour diatribe against Israel’s enemies. Sam listened quietly,
barely saying a word. Sam had studied about Arab Israeli conflicts for years but was quiet
about it. My diatribe finished, Sam quietly suggested I read books by two Israeli professors,
Baruch Kimmerling and Tanya Reinhart, of whom I’d never heard. Sam did not judge me or
argue against my point of view. That gave me the space to snap out of (reconsider) a belief
system I had accepted my entire life. To that point, it did not even occur to me that there was
more to the Arab Israel story than what I already knew. I did not consider that studying could
add to my understanding or that there may be another narrative about the conflict that could
make sense.
I looked up books by Kimmerling and Reinhart and complied a list of books from other authors
but only Jewish authors. I feared non-Jewish authors would be biased. Ironically, I was about
to uncover a lifetime of bias within myself. I checked out several books from the library and
began reading one by Norman Finkelstein. It was about the misuse of antisemitism, which I had
been doing without realizing it. My commitment was to find the truth and separate fact from
fiction.
Finkelstein’s resources were mostly mainstream human rights organizations like Human Rights
Watch and Amnesty International. I could not just dismiss the findings of these organizations.
They documented charges against Israeli soldiers, such as:
1. Using deadly force against unarmed civilians and children,
2. Bulldozing residences, sometimes with people still inside, like crippled people who could
not walk,
3. Stealing desperately needed water from Palestinian villages, and
4. Commonly using torture against Palestinian men and women.
Many of the reports Finkelstein quoted could be found online. I researched those online reports
to ensure Finkelstein was not lying. I had to admit he had been meticulous in every way. I had
to admit the truth. I was shocked at the abuse and humiliation Palestinians are routinely
subjected to at the hands of Israeli soldiers. I was shocked that Israel, a country I had invested
with a lifetime of loyalty, would treat any people this way.
NOTE: At this point the Clubhouse recording ended. The rest of the summary is based solely on
my memory and the brief notes I wrote during the rest of Rich’s presentation.
Over time, my shock became anger that Israel and its soldiers committed these human rights
abuses and unwarranted killings in my name as a Jewish man. Israel was now doing to
Palestinians what had been done to Jews over the centuries and during World War II and the
Holocaust. Eventually, my anger gave way to shame about the human rights abuses and
deaths Israel was inflicting upon the Palestinians. Finally, my shame became sorrow
(compassion) about what the Palestinians were suffering everyday at the hands of Israeli
soldiers and the government of Israel. Having studied the Palestinian Israeli conflict more
deeply and acquired new knowledge, my inner perception and understanding of what was
happening in the world was fundamentally altered. My new state of consciousness allowed me
to see the world differently. I no longer feared or hated Arabs generally or Palestinians
specifically. I did not think of them as enemies. I felt compassion toward those people (others)
who were suffering on both sides of the conflict, including the Palestinians.
What I came to realize is that the world, as each of us understands it, is merely a reflection of
our inner state of consciousness. Our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs, based on what the culture
we’re born into taught us, can become bias, which distorts our perception of the world and limits
our understanding of it. The world is a psycho-physical entity, not an object. To truly
understand the world, we must study it and ourselves deeply in search of truth and acquire
knowledge beyond what our cultural up-bringing has provided. (This is the value of diversity).
Rich described that point in his life as providing a deep, inner peace. He came to realize that
inner peace must be achieved (felt inside) before outer peace in the world can be achieved.
Rich no longer felt Arabs/Palestinians were enemies. We all want the same things. A life of
self-determination; food, shelter, and safety for our family and friends, the right to practice (or
not practice) religion as we see fit, and so forth. This is even true of extremists who, sadly, use
violence. We are all connected by our basic desires in life. This can be summarized by saying,
the usual state of being for humans is having limited information, and therefore limited
understanding. This typically leads to existential fear and confusion. However, seeking and
discovering additional true information and expanding your understanding of the world and its
people can lead to compassion for others and clarity. Then compassion and clarity replace our
existential fears.
Rich said, I came to realize that I am “all people”, not just a Jewish man. By limiting our
knowledge and understanding to what we learned from our birth culture, we end up creating
much of our own suffering. Our identification as only one thing (ex. Jewish, Christian, Muslim),
as a result of our cultural indoctrination, typically results confusion. When we must interact with
the real world, our confusion leads to self-generated suffering. That’s what happened to me for
most of my life, before I read the work of Finkelstein, Kimmerling, Reinhart, and others. I
learned that diversified knowledge was the key to greater understanding of the world, other
people, and their experiences. That freed me from my bias, taught me about my
connectedness to others, eliminated my fear and view of others as enemies, and led to my life
as a peace, nonviolence, and justice advocate.
The meeting was opened for questions and comments.
James commented on the importance of people breaking out of the “bubble” of their birth culture
and learning about the diversity in the world and the vast variety of people. Having a multi-
cultural view of the world does not require a repudiation of your birth culture. It is simply an
acceptance of the reality that your birth culture and its beliefs are not the only perspective from
which to view and understand the world and its myriad variety of people.
John Russell posed a question. How widespread is Zionism in Israel and the Jewish diaspora?
Rich began by saying that, although he was an unquestioning supporter of Israel up until 2006,
he did not consider himself a Zionist. He was a member of AIPAC only briefly. Zionism is the
secular belief that a Jewish state is necessary even before the fruition of the coming of a
messiah and the re-creation of Israel by God. Rich believes Zionism is not all that widespread.
He said that it was the Holocaust and its aftermath that created the conditions, in which non-
Jews in western countries and the United Nations, supported the small number of Zionists as
regards using Palestinian land to create a Jewish state. Rich doubted that a Jewish would have
been created had the Holocaust not occurred. He pointed out that many fundamentalist Jewish
people (orthodox Jews) believe the current state of Israel is artificial and violates Jewish dogma.
There were no further questions or comments.
On that note, final thanks were given to all, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope
that the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
James commented on the importance of people breaking out of the “bubble” of their birth culture
and learning about the diversity in the world and the vast variety of people. Having a multi-
cultural view of the world does not require a repudiation of your birth culture. It is simply an
acceptance of the reality that your birth culture and its beliefs are not the only perspective from
which to view and understand the world and its myriad variety of people.
John Russell posed a question. How widespread is Zionism in Israel and the Jewish diaspora?
Rich began by saying that, although he was an unquestioning supporter of Israel up until 2006,
he did not consider himself a Zionist. He was a member of AIPAC only briefly. Zionism is the
secular belief that a Jewish state is necessary even before the fruition of the coming of a
messiah and the re-creation of Israel by God. Rich believes Zionism is not all that widespread.
He said that it was the Holocaust and its aftermath that created the conditions, in which non-
Jews in western countries and the United Nations, supported the small number of Zionists as
regards using Palestinian land to create a Jewish state. Rich doubted that a Jewish would have
been created had the Holocaust not occurred. He pointed out that many fundamentalist Jewish
people (orthodox Jews) believe the current state of Israel is artificial and violates Jewish dogma.
There were no further questions or comments.
On that note, final thanks were given to all, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope
that the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
___________________
Session (17) -- Sunday, May 7, 2023
نشست (17) -- یکشنبه 17 اردیبهشت 1402
Part Three of the Iranian Nonviolence discussion (and Mr. Naser Alijani's presentation from inside Iran) about the major two-part Persian language gathering (with many prominent presenters and prisoners inside Iran) called "Dialogue about Rescuing Iran" that was held on April 21 and 22, 2023 in Clubhouse.
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
ZOOM / زوم
Corrected bilingual written summary coming soon...
Moji welcomed everyone to the Clubhouse and ZOOM. Today is Part III of discussing the two-day meeting of nonviolence and democratic leaders in Iran (Dialogue on Rescuing Iran), held on April 21 and 22, 2023. Many participated via messages they sent from prison or house arrest. We will begin by playing a recording by Mr. Naser Alijani, a nonviolence, peace, and civil activist in Iran. He is also a follower of Dr. Mossadegh and member of the democratic, National Front of Iran. The recording includes Mr. Alijani’s perceptions of, reactions to, and analysis of the two-day meeting on rescuing Iran from its current, violent, religious dictatorship. The recording is in Persian and was translated into English by brother Moji Agha.
MR. ALIJANI’S PRESENTATION:
Mr. Alijani greeted his fellow Iranians and humans around the world, especially those living in North America and European countries. He expressed a sense of honor to be in this gathering. Mr. Alijani expressed special thanks to Moji Agha for having created the forum and venue, Iranian Nonviolence.
This was an exceptionally important gathering of significant leaders of the Iranian community and our civil society. There was a diversity of leaders with different perspectives from different groups in and outside Iran. The topic of the gathering was how to rescue Iran from its current calamity (the violence and religion-based oppression of the current regime). The current calamity is religious governance, which cannot be a successful way to govern a country. Religious governance in Iran has been a failure.
People in North America and Europe understand what happened in the Middle Ages between the 11th and 16th centuries in the west and Europe. In this period, religion ruled in the west. However, beginning in the 17th century, people in the west began to institutionalize democracy and the role of religion was diminished. This was the topic of the two-day gathering in Iran; how to rescue the country from governance by religion, which has caused the current, horrible conditions. Governance of a specific, single religion should not be imposed on the people. The leaders in the gathering focused on how to save Iran socially and otherwise and how to guide Iran toward stable development, as well as good governance.
Since 1979’s Islamic Revolution, there have been many gatherings, seminars, and meetings around the same topic, eliminating religious governance. Among those who talked of good governance, not dominated by religion, was the first prime minister after the 1979 revolution, Medeh Bossagon. He was also the Minister of Oil in Dr. Mossadegh’s cabinet in the 1950s. More recently, we have former prime minister, Hussein Mossadegh who is now under house arrest since 2009. So, nonviolent, and peaceful transition away from religious governance is not a new topic.
The recent, two-day gathering was organized into six (6) panels. All six addressed how to rescue Iran from the dark ages. They all emphasized; a. Working together and collaborating across diverse groups with mutual respect and understanding, b. Maintaining basic ethical standards, c. Maintaining the territorial integrity of Iran, d. Insisting on the sovereignty of Iran to resist foreign interference, and e. Insisting on nonviolence in civil society as the way of achieving a rescued Iran. These diverse leaders want Iranians in and outside Iran to participate in devising a solution but with an emphasis on those living inside the country. The foundations for change must come from inside Iran.
A topic of special importance was to consider reasonable and useful goals for the “Transition Period”… from the current situation of religious dictatorship to the desired situation of democracy, freedom, and equality under secular law. These goals included nonviolence as the means of change, and a “new order”. This new order included an emphasis on a “movement based” social, political, and civil society… NOT reform of the current, religious regime or establishment. Movement based change means a civil society movement, which moves away from the religious regime. The difference between these two pathways is a very important distinction. The main challenge is how the movement can achieve its collaborative goals.
Strategies were discussed at length. It was felt that some kind of central governing body was needed to implement the movement’s goals. This would be a “united front” comprised of nonviolent leaders during the transition.
Another central topic was sustainable development from which everybody benefits. Such sustainable development would not perpetuate inequality. That would require paying close attention to human dignity in a genuine and authentic way. Its absolutely necessary to pay attention to prior mistakes and not repeat them. These mistakes included but were not limited to:
The presence of violence during attempted transitions, we must be nonviolent toward everyone,
A lack of diversity, we must allow diverse points of view to be heard with respect and considered peacefully, as was true in the two-day gathering on rescuing Iran.
Not all spectra of Iranian society were represented, we must represent all levels of society, as was true in the two-day gathering, during which everyone emphasized the need to move nonviolently beyond the current regime… that Iran must be rescued from the current situation. All must be included… women, youth, men, and others, regardless of language, religion, or ethnic background. Every group’s dignity must be respected.
The shared goal of all the diverse representatives in the two-day gathering was rescuing Iran from the current situation of violent, fundamentalist, religious governance. There was concern and hope that Iranians can weather (survive) the current, horrible dangers of violence and oppression by the current regime. We deeply need to develop, grow, and expand our thoughts and discourse… to take another look at ourselves and consider how we have been thinking and conducting ourselves.
All this does not mean there has been no growth of positive developments. Some growth is visible for visitors and citizens to see. Many things are different from the time of the Shah until now. The Shah and the current religious regime are dictatorships, which have held the country back. But there has been building of new infrastructure; highways, airports, cities, parks, stadiums, bridges, streets, which represent some growth and development. But this is the external façade of development. From the standpoint of political, social, civic, and intellectual development to name a few, Iran has been pushed backward centuries. This is the sad reality in which Iranians currently live. Building infrastructure is not enough. Culturally, politically, and from the standpoint of social development, Iran has been pushed back into the dark ages.
Clearly, humans are seeking basic freedoms from unreasonable restrictions and impediments in their daily lives. We people are seeking our human dignity regardless of what part of the world we live in. People want freedom within the framework of law, not religious dictates. In our gathering today, I think everyone is looking for human dignity and freedom within the framework of democratically established laws. I think there is no one among us who isn’t seeking political, social, cultural, and religious security and stability. I am sure that these collaborative and peaceful gatherings, if continued, can beckon a brighter society through nonviolence. It is my hope that these changes can result in people, internationally and within Iran, to view Iran with greater respect. I am sure that the generations of the past four decades, since the 1979 revolution, and our youth will create a better future for Iran.
The content and form of what we do to rescue Iran from its current situation and regime is critical. We must be clear and transparent about what we want to do in the transition away from religious governance. Collaboration, solidarity, and diversity are all very important. We must include those who have been exiled, as well as those inside Iran. There has been a focus on creating a National Council to guide nonviolent action to rescue Iran. A National Council would have to be diverse in its representation and not concentrate power in the hands of a narrow group of selected personalities. A National Council would have to represent “we the people”. And from this National Council would come an Executive Council or transitional government to implement the wishes of we the people. One important program to be addressed by the transitional government would be to form a constituent assembly to rewrite the constitution of the new Iran. The transitional government would plan for a referendum on the kind of governance that the people of Iran would like to have after the transition period. There are other issues that would need to be put to a free and open vote of the people, such as the nature of the ecological and environmental future of Iran.
Thank you for being patient with my talk. And thanks again to Moji Agha whose concurrent translation has allowed my voice to reach and be heard by people outside of Iran. Please forgive me if my words were too long. My best wishes for happiness and a better future.
Moji stated that the preceding was the words of Mr. Naser Alijani from inside Iran. It was his perspective on the two-day gathering that was held to address the rescuing of Iran from the current, violent, dictatorial, and religious regime.
Moji solicited any thoughts, comments, or questions regarding Mr. Alijani’s presentation.
Dada said, “May your hand be golden.”, an Iranian expression meaning the presentation was wonderful.
James commented… Mr. Alijani beautifully covered a wide range of topics regarding the two-day gathering focused on rescuing Iran from the current situation and its religious dictatorship. But one of the central (lynchpin) issues was that transitioning from singularly religious governance to a more diverse and accepting form or governance (secular/pluralistic) was essential. Mr. Alijani spoke of social, political, and religious security and stability. I hear that as guaranteeing genuine religious freedom. Moji added freedom of opinion and thought. Iran must become a place where people are not punished, imprisoned, or killed for their political, social, or religious beliefs. A place where people with diverse beliefs can come together openly without any sub-group being oppressed or punished… where diversity is respected , allowing sustained development and progress.
Moji mentioned that James lives in Texas. James stated that there is a neo-fascist and fundamentally religious state government in Texas. So, we are fighting some of the same political and religious battles in Texas that are being fought in Iran. In Texas, we have much less but not zero violence to fear. But the state government often threatens imprisonment if you violate fundamentalist, Christian dogma.
There were no further final thoughts, and therefore, final thanks were given to all, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope that the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
___________________
Session (16) -- Sunday, April 30, 2023
نشست (16) -- یکشنبه 10 اردیبهشت 1402
Part Two of the Iranian Nonviolence discussion about the major two-part Persian language gathering (with many prominent presenters and prisoners inside Iran) called "Dialogue about Rescuing Iran" that was held on April 21 and 22, 2023 in Clubhouse.
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
ZOOM / زوم
Corrected bilingual written summary coming soon...
Moji welcomed everyone to the Clubhouse and ZOOM. Today is Part II of discussing the two-day meeting (Saving Iran) on April 21 and 22, 2023, of nonviolence leaders inside and outside Iran. Many participated via messages they sent from prison or house arrest. We will begin with the reading of the message sent from Evin Prison to the meeting by democracy and nonviolence leader, Mostafa Tajzadeh. It will be read in Persian and English. Moji noted that several people who were not in prison and participated in the two-day meeting about saving Iran have subsequently been arrested and imprisoned by the Iranian Revolutionary Islamic regime.
یکم اردیبهشت ۱۴۰۲ -- April 21, 2023
پیام مصطفی تاج‌زاده از درون زندان اوین به همایش مجازی گفتگو برای نجات ایران
The message of Mostafa Tajzadeh, from inside Evin Prison (in Tehran, Iran) to the two-day online gathering called "Dialogue about Rescuing Iran" that was held on April 21st and 22nd, 2023 in Clubhouse.
مقدمه
نجات ایران در گرو تلاش همه نیروهای دموکراسی خواه و عدالت طلب متعهد به استقلال و تمامیت ارضی است. مبارزه فکری، فرهنگی و سیاسی با طالبانیسم شیعی و نشان دادن بنیان های سست اندیشه ای که وضعیت سراسر بحران زده ایران امروز را رقم زده, بیش از هر نیروی سیاسی و فکری بر عهده روشنفکران و نواندیشان مسلمان است. این یادداشت در جهت افشای استبداد به نام دین, از زبان ایرانیان مسلمان آزادیخواه به عرض می رسد
Introduction: The rescuing of Iran depends on the efforts of all democratic and justice-seeking forces, who are committed to independence and territorial integrity of Iran. The intellectual, cultural, and political struggle against Shiite Talibanism, and exposing the weak foundations of the intent that has shaped the entire crisis situation of Iran today, is the responsibility of Muslim intellectuals and new thinkers, more than any other political and intellectual force. This note is presented in order to expose tyranny in the name of religion. It is the voice of freedom-loving Iranian Muslims.
در پاسخ به رهبر؛ ما کیستیم؟
In response to the Supreme Leader; Who Are We?
آیت‌الله خامنه‌ای در سخنرانی نوروزی خود در مشهد نکاتی را گفت که از بین آنها لازم دیدم به آن بخشی پاسخ گویم که بی‌محابا نسبت‌هایی ناروا به منتقدان خود و ساختار حقوقی و سیاسی نظام داد و به راحتی آنها را دنباله‌رو دشمنان کشور و ضد دین و ضد انقلاب خواند و گفت: «متأسّفانه در داخل هم بعضی‌ها به‌تبع آنها (دشمنان) یا به تقلید آنها، همان حرف را با تعبیرات دیگری بیان میکنند: مثلاً تغییر قانون اساسی یا تغییر ساختار نظام اسلامی؛ این همان حرف بیگانه‌هاست، همان حرف دشمن‌هاست، منتها عنصر داخلی گاهی از روی غفلت، از روی بی‌توجّهی، گاهی هم با انگیزه‌های دیگر، آن حرف را تکرار میکند.» او با نادیده‌گرفتن انبوهی از ایرانیان شریف و دلسوز داخل و خارج از کشور که به دنبال اصلاح ساختاری و تغییر قانون اساسی هستند، استکبار و صهیونیسم را پیگیران این تحول معرفی میکند و مدعی شد: "هدف آنها حذف همه‌ی چیزهایی است که مردم را به یاد انقلاب و به یاد اسلام می‌اندازد؛ اسلام ناب و اسلام انقلابی." چیزی که متاسفانه ترجمه صریحش میشود تبعیت بی‌چون‌وچرا از ایشان
In his Nowruz speech in Mashhad, Ayatollah Khamenei said a few things, from among which I felt it necessary to respond (in particular) to the part in which he unabashedly leveled unfair and false accusations against his critics and the legal and political structure of his ruling system, easily calling them enemies of the country, anti-religion and counter-revolutionary. He said: "Unfortunately, some people inside the country, who follow the lead of enemies (or imitate their wishes) express the same words, sometimes with other interpretations: For example, they call for changing the Constitution or altering the structure of the Islamic [ruling] system. These are the same words and wishes of foreigners, our enemies, but internal elements sometimes repeat such words, out of neglect, indifference, or sometimes with other motives." Ignoring the multitudes of honorable and caring Iranians inside and outside the country, who are looking for structural reforms and changing the constitution, Mr. Khamenei calls us pawns of Imperialism and Zionism (because we seek such transformations); and he further claimed: "Their goal is to remove everything that reminds people of the revolution and Islam; pure Islam, revolutionary Islam." Unfortunately, the obvious translation of his accusations and claims is that all must unquestioningly show obedience to him and his regime.
رهبر همچنین درباره این دشمن موهوم اینچنین گفت: "هدف دشمن، تبدیل مردم‌سالاریِ اسلامی به یک حکومت باب میل استکبار است. آنها در ایران دنبال این هستند که یک حکومتی اینجا سر کار بیاید که باب میل استکبار باشد؛ یا یک حکومت فردی که یک فرد مطیعِ آنها بر سر کار باشد، یا یک حکومت به‌ظاهر دموکراسی غربی که [در واقع] دموکراسی دروغ و فریب است." داوری درباره اینکه آیا رهبر در اقلیت است یا در اکثریت را به ملت می‌سپارم. اما فقط می‌پرسم که چرا مقامی که خود را مستظهر به پشتیبانی اکثریت مردم می‌داند، با انتخابات آزاد و رفراندوم سر جنگ دارد؟ گذشته از آن، مگر در یک نظام مردم‌سالار و براساس یک منطق عقلایی، هر مقامی که اختیارات بیشتری دارد، مسئولیت بیشتری ندارد؟ یا پاسخ‌گوتر نیست؟ و نباید جدی‌تر در مظان نقد و نظارت قرار گیرد؟ آقای خامنه‌ای تاکنون پاسخ‌گوی چه نهادی بوده است؟
The "supreme leader" also said about this imaginary enemy: "The goal of the enemy is to turn Islamic democracy into a government of arrogance [namely, a regime desired by the Empire, by imperialism]. They are looking for a government in Iran that they want, either a regime ruled by an individual dictator subservient to them, or a government with the appearance of a Western-style democracy, which [in reality] is the democracy of lies and deception." I leave it to our people to judge whether the leader is in the minority or in the majority. I just ask why the "supreme authority" that considers himself to be supported by the majority of the people is at war with free elections and referendums? Apart from that (in a democratic system, and based on a rational and authentic logic) shouldn't officials who have more authority have more responsibility--and be more answerable to the people they govern? And shouldn't such officials be more seriously criticized and monitored? What institution has Mr. Khamenei answered to, so far?
به باور من، نظارت بر عملکرد رهبر و نقد رفتار و گفتار وی که اختیاراتش مطلق شده است و در امور، دخالت حداکثری میکند – اگرچه می‌کوشد مداخلاتش از نگاه افکارِعمومی پنهان بماند – جزو حقوق و حتی وظایف شهروندی همه ایرانیان است. همچنین بر این باورم در شرایط حساس و متحول جهانی که پر از فرصت‌های سازنده و تهدیدهای ویرانگر است، نباید سرنوشت میهن را به دست یک‌نفر داد که با خطاهای خود، فرصت‌ها را بسوزاند، بر مخاطرات ملی بیفزاید، و امید به سامان‌یافتن امور را در ذهن و ضمیر قاطبه ملت بخشکاند. اما درباره اتهامات اخیر رهبر به منتقدان خود و دنباله‌ی دشمنان بیگانه و ضد اسلام و انقلاب خواندن آنها، لازم است نه برای ایشان - که رهبر به خوبی منتقدان خود از جمله امثال بنده را می‌شناسد - که برای کسانی‌که ممکن است تحت‌تاثیر چنین سخنانی قرار بگیرند، یکبار برای همیشه اتمام حجت کنم تا بدانند میلیون‌ها ایرانی مسلمان که طرف‌دار تغییر ساختار و قانون اساسی هستند، کیستند و چه باوری دارند؟
In my opinion, Mr. Khamenei has become a leader whose powers have become absolute and he interferes in [all] affairs maximally--although he tries to hide his interventions from the eyes of public opinion. Thus, scrutinizing his performance and criticizing his words and conduct, is among the rights and even the citizenship responsibilities of all Iranians. Also, I believe that in the sensitive and changing conditions of the world (which is full of constructive opportunities and destructive threats) the fate of our country should not be left in the hands of one person, whose despotic mistakes keep burning opportunities, adding to the many threats our nation faces, and destroying the hope for any improvement in the hearts of our people. And regarding the leader's recent accusations against his critics (whom he keeps name-calling as agents of foreign enemies, anti-Islamic, and counter-revolutionary), it is necessary, not for him -- since the leader knows his critics, including the likes of me, quite well -- but for the sake of those who may be fooled by such words, I hereby say these words, so as to present, once and for all, the complete picture, so that the ruling authorities know who we are (we the millions of Muslim Iranians who are in favor of changing, nonviolently, the structure and the constitution of the regime) and what it is that we want.
ما کیستیم؟ ما با اسلام مخالف نیستیم، بلکه با افتخار اعلام میکنیم به عنوان ایرانیان مسلمان و آزادیخواه، با استبداد به نام اسلام مخالفیم و معتقدیم که اسلام قشری، ارتجاعی و متکی به زور در ایران، بیشترین آسیب را به دین و دنیای مردم زده است
ما با حاکمیت قانون مخالف نیستیم، بلکه آن را یگانه راه رسیدن به ایرانی آباد و آزاد و امن می‌دانیم. اما به اعتقاد ما ولایت فقیه در عمل ثابت کرده که حاکمیت قانون را به حاکمیت بر قانون تبدیل میکند و با دوقطبی کردن جامعه و تجزیه‌کردن ملت و انحصار قدرت برای خود و اقلیت هوادار و حامی‌پروری با اتکا به منابع عمومی، عملا جمهور را ناجمهور می‌سازد. به‌همین‌دلیل با مادام‌العمری و اختیارات فراقانونی برای هر مقامی مخالفیم، زیرا پیامد گریزناپذیر آن را خودکامه، مطلقه و غیرپاسخ‌گو شدن قدرت و سرمنشاء ناکارآمدی و فساد حکومت می‌دانیم
WHO ARE WE? We are not against Islam, but we proudly announce that as Muslim and freedom-loving Iranians, we are against tyranny in the name of Islam, and we believe that superficial, class-based, reactionary, fundamentalist, and violence-based "Islamic" rule in Iran, has caused the greatest harm to the religion, and to the "world" of our people. We are not against the rule of law, and instead we consider it the only way to reach a prosperous, free, and safe Iran. But according to our belief, Velayat-e Faqih (Rule of the Supreme Cleric) has proved, in practice, that it turns the rule of law into the rule (of despotism) upon and above (the democratically agreed upon) law. And this "religious" absolute rule, by polarizing the society and dividing our people, and by monopolizing power for itself (and its supporting thin minority), and through patronage and exclusive use on public resources, has practically turned the republic of our people into an un-republic. For these reasons, we are against the lifetime tenure and the extra-legal powers for any official, because we consider its inevitable consequence to be autocratic, absolute, and unaccountable power, and the source of inefficiency and corruption in governance.
ما ولایت فقیه را یک نظریه کلامی و فقهی می‌دانیم که در کنار علمای موافق، مخالفان فراوان و معتبری در حوزه‌های علمیه داشته و دارد. بنابراین نمی‌توان آن را در ردیف اصول و مبانی اسلام و تشیع قرار داد. نکته استراتژیک آن است که ولایت فقیه به‌عنوان مبنای نظم سیاسی، در عمل با شکستی فاحش روبه‌رو شده است. ما با روحانیت مخالف نیستیم، بلکه با وهن و توهین به نهاد دین مخالفیم و به خدمات حوزه‌های علمیه و برخی نقش‌آفرینی‌های تاریخی و مثبت آنان معترفیم. اما معتقدیم اعطای حق ویژه و گذاردن مسئولیت سنگین حکومت به دوش روحانیون، اشتباهی بزرگ بوده که بیشترین آسیب را به کشور و ملت و به خود مرجعیت و حوزه‌های علمیه وارد کرده است. به باور ما، استمرار حکومت آنان، جز دورترشدن نهاد دین از مردم و رودروشدن با آنان حاصلی ندارد
We consider Velayat-e Faqih (Rule of the Supreme Cleric) to be a theologically-based jurisprudential theory (of "religious" governance) which, along with a minority of religious scholars who support it, has had (and it has) many credible opponents in the seminaries. Therefore, it cannot be placed in the ranks of the principles and foundations of Islam and Shiism. The strategic main point, however, is that this kind of rule, as the basis of political order, has also faced a serious failure in practice. We are not against the clergy, but we are against insulting and humiliating the institution of religion, because we recognize the services of seminaries, and some of their historically positive functions. But we believe that granting special rights, and putting the extremely heavy responsibility of the governance on the shoulders of clerics has been a big mistake, and it has caused the greatest damage to the country and our people, and to the moral authority of religion itself, as well as severely harming the seminaries. In our opinion, the continuation of religious dictatorship has had no effect, other than distancing the religious institutions from the people, and creating a situation of confrontation between Islam and the public.
نقض استقلال حوزه‌های علمیه از بزرگترین خطاها و مسبب لطمات بسیار به حوزه‌ها و حکومت شده و بین آنها با اکثریت جامعه فاصله انداخته است. روحانیت قدرت را گرفته و مردم را ازدست داده است. جبران این اشتباه بزرگ آن است که روحانیت به جایگاه تاریخی خود بازگردد؛ از رانت و امتیازات فریبنده و گذرای یکی‌شدن نهاد دین و نهاد دولت رها شود، به تحقیق و آموزش و ترویج دین بپردازد؛ حامی و پناه مردم شود؛ و بر عملکرد حکومت و ارکانش نظارت مدنی کند. شأن روحانیت علمداری بگیروببند، سانسور، توقیف، توجیه سرکوب و اعدام معترضان عاصی نیست. مدنی‌ترین یا موثرترین روش برای جبران این خطا، حذف ولایت فقیه از قانون اساسی است
Violating the independence of religious seminaries (from power) is one of the biggest mistakes, and it has caused a lot of damage to the seminaries and to the "religious" government, distancing them from the majority of our society. The clergy has gained power but has lost the people. The way to correct this big mistake is for the clergy to return to its historical role; to be freed from the deceptive and transitory rents and privileges of the union of the institution of religion and the institution of the state. The clergy should go back to researching, teaching, and promoting religion; once again be the support and refuge of the people; and have civil (moral) supervision over the performance of the government and its members. The dignity of the clergy comes NOT from binding, censoring, detaining, and justifying repression, and the cruel execution of desperate disobedient protesters. The most civil and effective way to correct this monumental error, is to remove the governing authority of the clerics from the constitution.
ما با حجاب اسلامی مخالف نیستیم، اما با اجباری‌کردن آن مخالفیم و تحمیل حجاب را توهین به ملت رشید ایران می‌دانیم که موجب بدبینی قشرهای وسیعی از ایرانیان - به‌ویژه جوانان - نه‌فقط به اصل حجاب، بلکه به اصل اسلام شده است. ما معتقدیم زنان ایرانی همچنان‌که به کشف حجاب زوری «نه» گفتند، حجاب تحمیلی را نیز برنمی‌تابند و زیربار آن نمی‌روند. مگر جز این است که خیزش تاریخ‌ساز «زن، زندگی، آزادی» در اعتراض به حجاب اجباری شکل گرفته و منشاء آثار و تحولات بزرگ شده است؟ ما ضمن محکوم‌کردن تلاش‌های مذبوحانه مقامات و نهادهایی که با اتخاذ تصمیمات نابخردانه و رسوا، می‌خواهند جلوی اراده زنان کشور برای حق بدیهی انتخاب پوشش و سبک زندگی فردی را بگیرند، به رهبر هشدار می‌دهیم که ستیز با اراده و خواست اکثریت ملت و حق اولیه زنان برای انتخاب پوشش و سبک زندگی، به‌ویژه نسل جوانِ شجاع و آگاه و آزادیخواه، به منظور اجباری‌کردن دوباره حجاب، هرگز به نتیجه نمی‌رسد؛ اما میتواند زمینه‌ساز خیزش‌هایی بزرگتر از جنبش دوران‌ساز "زن، زندگی، آزادی" شود
We are not against the Islamic hijab, but instead we are against making it compulsory, and we consider the imposition of the hijab to be an insult to the mature and brave nation of Iran. Such violent laws have caused a large section of we Iranians--especially our youth--to become skeptical, not only of the principle of the "Islamic" hijab, but also of the principles of Islam. We believe that Iranian women, who said "no" to the forced hijab, will not again submit to imposed hijab and will not be burdened by it any more. The fact is that the history-making uprising of "Woman, Life, Freedom" was formed in protest against the mandatory hijab, but it has originated additional great achievements and transformations. We condemn the desperate efforts of the authorities and the institutions who (by making foolish and scandalous decisions) want to break the will of our country's women to gain the obvious human rights of choosing their clothing and individual lifestyle. We warn the supreme leader that his fight against the will and desire of the majority of our nation for the basic right of women to choose their desired clothing and lifestyle will fail; and especially the brave, informed, and freedom-loving young generation of our people will resist any attempt at making the hijab mandatory again, and such desperate measures will never come to fruition, but they can backfire again, and become the sparks for even bigger uprisings than the history-making "Woman, Life, Freedom" movement.
ما با شعائر اسلامی مخالف نیستیم، بلکه با اسباب رانت شدن آن یا انتصاب میان‌مایگان به مصادر چون امامت جمعه مخالفیم که هر هفته با سخنان سخیف خود، موجب وهن دین و شرمندگی مومنان میشوند. دیانت و امامت امثال آقایان طالقانی و منتظری است که میتواند مردم را با گرایش‌های مختلف جذب کند و فرائض اسلامی را احیا کند. نماز جمعه باید میعادگاه مردم مسلمان با سلائق و گرایش‌های مختلف باشد، نه تریبونی برای ترویج اسلام خشونت‌پرور فرقه مصباح. ما با ۲۲ بهمن مخالف نیستیم و آن را تجلی اراده ملت می‌دانیم و گرامیداشت آن روز را در تداوم میزان بودن رای ملت می‌دانیم و نه رای رهبر
We are not against Islamic customs and rites, but we are against such archaic traditions becoming advantages and rents for the chosen few, and we oppose the appointment of unqualified mediocre clerics to highly powerful positions such as the Imam of Friday prayers, who every week cause humiliation of the religion and bring shame to believers with their ridiculous words and orders. The respectful religious stature and the Friday prayers leadership of the likes of the Late Mr. Taleghani and Mr. Montazeri, can once again attract people who have even different tendencies, and can even revive authentic Islamic customs. Friday Prayers should be a meeting place for Muslim people with different tastes and tendencies, not a platform to promote the violent "Islam" of the Misbah Cult. We are not opposed to the 1979 Revolution, and consider it the manifestation of the will of the nation, and thus we consider the commemoration of that Revolution (not the ugly dictatorship it has become) to be the continuation of our people's vote--not the supreme leader's dictates.
ما همچنان به حق تعیین سرنوشت کشور توسط هر نسل معتقدیم و به برابری حقوقی تک‌تک شهروندان باور داریم و بر این اساس، از حق نسل جدید برای تدوین قانون اساسی منسجم و دموکراتیک، باتوجه به تجارب چهار دهه گذشته قاطعانه و بدون لکنت دفاع میکنیم و فریب و دروغ را آن می‌دانیم که در نظامی به نام جمهوری، رای و نظر جمهور نادیده گرفته شود، حتی اگر مزین به صفت اسلامی گردد. پاسداشت ۲۲ بهمن به آن است که نظام مردمی بماند ونظامیانش مانند تمام کشورهای دمکراتیک، زیرنظر منتخبان ملت و در چارچوب وظایف نظامی و دفاعی خود فعالیت کند. در این صورت و با بازگشت آنها به پادگان‌ها، به عنوان یک نیروی ملی نزد همه ملت عزیز و گرامی خواهند بود
As in the 1979 Revolution, we continue to believe in the right of each generation to determine the country's destiny, and hence we believe in the equality before the law of each citizen. And based on this principle, we defend the right of the new generations to formulate their own coherent and democratic constitution, on the basis of the experiences of the past four decades--and we defend this right decisively and without stuttering. And we consider it a lie, when the vote and opinion of the elected President is ignored in a system called a Republic, even if it is decorated with an Islamic attribute. The observance of the 1979 Revolution is for the people's democratic system to remain, and for our military forces, like in all democratic countries, to operate under the supervision of the nation's elected officials, and within the framework of their military and defense duties. In this case, and when they return to the barracks, they will be endeared and cherished by the whole nation as a national force to defend our country.
ما معتقدیم رهبر و منصوبانش حق ندارند به اسم اسلام و انقلاب و ۲۲ بهمن، به نقض حقوق قانونی ایرانیان بپردازند و به مصاف تمام آزادی‌های قانونی شهروندان، از آزادی‌های فرهنگی و هنری و ادبی تا آزادی دانشگاهی و حوزوی، از آزادی مطبوعات و فضای مجازی تا آزادی احزاب و تشکل‌ها، از آزادی تجمع‌های مسالمت‌آمیز تا آزادی انتخابات بروند. بله! ایران و اسلام و تشیع رقبا و حتی دشمنانی داشته‌اند و دارند که سربلندی هیچیک را نمی‌خواهند. اما به باور ما بیشترین لطمه را به ایران و اسلام و تشیع درحال‌حاضر، کسانی می‌زنند که با لجاجت و استبدادرای و طالبانی‌گری، چهره‌ای زشت و مشوه از نظام ساخته‌اند و بزرگترین موانع را در راه نیل به ایرانی امن، توسعه‌یافته و دمکراتیک ایجاد کرده‌اند
We believe that the supreme leader and his appointees have no right to violate the legal rights of Iranians in the name of Islam, and the "Islamic" Revolution; and against all the legal liberties of our citizens, from cultural, artistic, and literary freedoms to university and seminary freedoms, from freedom of the press and cyberspace to the freedom of political parties and civic organizations, from the freedom of peaceful assembly to the freedom of elections. Yes! Iran, Islam, and Shiism have had bitter rivals and even enemies, and we don't want the triumph of any of them. But in our opinion, at present, the greatest harm to Iran, Islam, and Shiism is caused by those who have created an ugly and distorted image of the "Islamic" system, given their stubbornness, tyranny and Talibanism, and they are the ones who have erected the biggest obstacles on the way to a safe, developed and democratic Iran.
ما ایرانیانی طرف‌دار استقلال، تمامیت ارضی و مخالف دخالت بیگانگان هستیم. اما نه ریشه مشکلات را ناشی از توطئه‌های دشمن می‌بینیم، نه مخالفان خود را به آنها وصل میکنیم و نه متاثر از آنها می‌دانیم. این شیوه‌ای بسیار ناپسند و توهین‌آمیز در مقابله با مخالفان و منتقدان است که رهبر به جای پاسخگویی، مرتکب آن میشود. از قضا ما استقلال کشور را به سبب دوری از مردم در معرض خطر می‌بینیم و نگرانیم که حاکمان به‌جای گردن کج کردن در برابر ملت، اجیر منافع و مطامع بیگانگان شوند و برای بقاء خود به منافع ملی چوب حراج بزنند
We Iranians are supporters of our independence and territorial integrity, and are against foreign interference. But we do not see the root cause of the country's problems being the enemies' conspiracies; and we do not connect our political opponents to them, or being under their influence. Rather than being answerable to we, the people, the supreme leader makes these deeply disrespectful and insulting accusations, as a way of dealing with his critics and opponents. Ironically, we see the country's independence becoming increasingly endangered, given that his so-called "Islamic" system is distanced from the people of Iran. And we are worried that our rulers, instead of bending their necks before the nation, have become hired by the interests and ambitions of foreigners, and they are auctioning our national interests for their own survival.
ما دموکراسی مبتنی بر حقوق برابر شهروندان و تضمین حقوق اساسی آحاد ملت، مستقل از اقلیت یا اکثریت بودن آنها را عادلانه‌ترین نظام سیاسی و تنها سیستمی می‌دانیم که قادر به تامین امنیت پایدار ایران و حداکثری کردن قدرت کشور و کسب منافع ملت ماست. ما مشروعیت حکومت را به دینی بودن آن نمی‌دانیم، بلکه به عادل بودن آن می‌دانیم و امروزه بهترین شیوه برقرار کردن عدالت ساختاری، همانا دموکراسی است که حاکمان را پاسخ‌گو و اجیر و خادم ملت میکند و بر ولیّ بودنشان قلم بطلان می‌کشد. سخن آخر آنکه به باور ما حکومت فردی، مادام‌العمر، مطلقه و غیرپاسخ‌گو، نسبتی با جمهوریت ندارد و در ایران محکوم به شکست است؛ چه عرفی و سکولار باشد و چه دینی
We consider democracy, based on the equal rights of citizens and the guarantee of the basic rights of all members of our nation (regardless of whether they are a minority or a majority) to be the fairest political system, the only form of governance that is capable of providing Iran with stable security and maximizing our country's authentic power--and thus, securing the real interests of our nation. We do not consider the source of the legitimacy of our government to be religious, but instead, justice; and today the best way to establish structural justice is democracy, which invalidates the "divine guardianship" of rulers, and makes them accountable, as hired servants of the nation. The last word is that we believe that lifelong, hereditary, unaccountable and absolute rule by any individual or family has no relationship with the republic we want our country to be, and such religious or secular forms of dictatorship are doomed to failure in Iran.
The room was opened for discussion… questions and comments.
Three Iranians (inside Iran) were invited to speak but technical problems prevented their speaking.
Moji invited James to comment, as an American, about the brave comments of Mr. Tajzadeh,
which targeted the so-called Iranian supreme leader. James commented… first was a clear
message from Mr. Tajzadeh that religious leaders and governmental leaders have two very
different roles to play. These different roles should not be intertwined. The role of the mullahs
and seminaries should be to guide people to Islam. They should address what the holy Qur’an
and the Prophet Mohammed have said to guide us in life. The task of government leaders is
very different. They must address the passing of laws used to run the country and
administering the day-to-day activities of the country. Government leaders must safeguard the
rights of all people in the country. In America, it is called the separation of church and state…
the separation of religion and government. When the tasks of religion and government are
mixed together, they both suffer and are corrupted.
The second major point from Mr. Tajzadeh was dictatorship, whether it is religion-based ( ex.
the Iranian Revolutionary Islamic regime) or secular-based (the Shah)… must not be allowed to
stand. Neither one is good for the country or the people.
Moji said that the issue is to fight for democracy and against dictatorship of any kind.
Mr. Dada from Manitoba, Canada commented… Mr. Tajzadeh was part of the Islamic regime
before he was arrested and knows very well how it functions. His message was poignant,
realistic, and pertinent to the present conditions in Iran. The current Iranian regime is incapable
of maintaining religious principles or governing effectively. Public opinion surveys show a
huge majority of Iranians have been turned off toward Islam and are against this religious
dictatorship. They are strongly against religious governance. The social, economic, and
cultural condition of the country is disastrous. The Iranian Revolutionary Islamic regime has
harmed our religion, as well as the country. So, the majority of the people no longer want to
have anything to do with the regime or this system of governance. The regime has lost the
ability to govern in a very real way. The remaining ruling circle is so small that it no longer
includes any real experts; cultural, economic, political, or scientific. Therefore, the religious,
dictatorial regime has become unable to run the country.
Moji again attempted to make it possible for people inside Iran to comment. But technical
problems continued with the new Clubhouse system. An Iranian (Mr. Hamid) posed a question in the "chat" section of the room.
“Please ask about the future of U.S. – Iran relations. Trump and Russian and other government
leaders… if they become united, would that help or not when the regime (Iranian Revolutionary
Islamic regime) changes?” Dada interpreted Mr. Hamid’s question to mean… After a change in
regime in Iran, what do you (James) think about the future of U.S. – Iran relations?
James commented… when the Women, Life, Freedom Movement succeeds and there is a
more democratic government in Iran, then democratic, Iranian leaders will have to be very
careful about America. What happened to Mr. Mossadegh and the democratic, Iranian
government in 1953 is a warning for Iran’s future, democratic leaders. The fact is that America
wants to be able to have some control over what is happening in other countries. It will be
important for democratic leaders in Iran to maintain their independence from the U.S.
government as much as is possible.
Moji pointed out that this is exactly what Mr. Tajzadeh was saying in his message from Evin
Prison. Iranians want independence… that’s Mr. Mossadegh’s message too. We want
independence from any other country that tries to decide Iran’s future. Iran wants to rely on its
own resources.
James went on… I hate to say these things about America. But I must be truthful about my
concerns based on America’s prior colonialist, corporate-driven behaviors throughout its history.
Moji thanked James for speaking the truth regardless of who is pleased or displeased.
James concluded by saying that Iran controlling its own resources will be a very important issue
in a democratic Iran. America uses its military and the CIA to allow U.S. corporations to exert
control over and exploit the resources of other countries. America and its colonialist and
exploitative corporations do not care if another country and its people benefit from their own
resources. That is what happened when the U.S.’s CIA helped overthrow Dr. Mossadegh in
1953. Most of U.S. foreign policy, over endless years, has been driven by attempts to control oil
and gas supplies in other countries. Dr. Mossadegh understood the need for Iran to control its
own resources and not be horribly exploited by U.S. corporations. He tried to nationalize Iran’s
oil industry. But the U.S. undermined Dr. Mossadegh’s government and installed the
dictatorship of the Shah in Iran. Corporate America, along with the support of the U.S. military
and the CIA, has a bad habit of horribly exploiting the resources and people of other countries.
I do not want to say that a democratic Iran can not have a meaningful and mutually beneficial
relationship with America. But it must stand its own ground and be independent in doing so.
Moji added… The current, Iranian Islamic regime insists that it is trying to maintain Iran’s
sovereignty and freedom from U.S. influence. But they have made Iran dependent on Russia
and China. Dr. Mossadegh said that, neither east nor west (should control Iran’s future). He
was one of the spiritual forefathers of the nonaligned movement.
James added… it is just as Mr. Tajzadeh was saying in his statement from Bevin Prison, to be
controlled by a religious or secular dictatorship, or to be controlled by an external power like the
U.S., Russia, China, or anyone else, none of that is good. Moji added… Iran should not
become dependent on any other country.
Mr. Hamid asked what James knows about Iran’s history. James admitted to knowing only very
little and relies heavily on Moji to provide the context of such history. Mr. Hamid said that
despite the dictatorship of the Shah, the country was developing little-by-little. James should
know about President Carter’s betrayal of Iran. Moji said that Mr. Hamid was talking about
President Carter not supporting the Shah and not keeping the Shah in power. Mr. Hamid views
this as a betrayal by President Carter.
James responded… stability in any country is essential. But stability purchased by violent
suppression and oppression of the people by a dictator, like the Shah, is not a good way for a
country to secure its stability. Moji translated… dictatorship, stability and long-term, stable
development are mutually exclusive.
James continued… the democratic election of leaders by the people in free and fair elections,
where there is no religious or secular dictatorship, is the long-term glue that holds together a
country so it can develop in the long run. The short-term stability that comes from dictatorship
wears out as the dictator must become increasingly violent over time to maintain his control.
The violence of the dictatorship, be it secular or religious, undermines the long-term
development and stability of a country.
Mr. Hamid asked, can America be better than Russia regarding Iran? I want to know this
because I see… James, given that he is an American, is giving his honest opinion. I want to
know whether the Americans, in comparison with Russians, can be better or worse for Iran.
James replied… well, the form of government in Russia is a dictatorship. It kept eastern
European countries under its strict control during the Soviet era. And it currently uses its
military to invade and try to absorb other sovereign countries like Ukraine. So, if you align
yourself with Russia, you are basically saying you are willing to allow yourself to be dominated.
Moji translated… to align with Russia, you are choosing the continuation of dictatorship. James
continued… with America, you have a genuine opportunity to stand up to America that you
would not have with Russia.
Moji added… this is a very important point you are making. That you have a real chance to
resist U.S. domination. But you don’t have a chance to resist Russian domination of Iran.
James continued… it’s the same with China. Both communist China and Russia are
dictatorships. You can predict how Russia would deal with Iran by looking at what it is doing in
Ukraine. They wouldn’t treat Iran with any more respect than they are treating Ukraine.
Moji added… Russia and China do not want a democratic and self-reliant Iran. I believe that the
fact that we are able to resist U.S. domination is because of Iran’s over 150-year history of
resisting colonialism. We Iranians know how to resist colonialism whether British form or
American form. So, Russian colonialism… before, we had a 150 years ago lots of Russian
colonialism. And we don’t have a history of being able to have a democratic relationship with
China. James agreed.
James commented… America is in decline. Russia is in decline. He (Mr. Hamis) needs to be
more concerned about communist China. Moji jokingly said, “ I don’t think he gives a damn
about that.
James said, I understand that the immediate issue is the current regime (and its religious
dictatorship) in Iran. Moji added… and how it (the current regime) is destroying the country.
James agreed and said, Mr. Dada spoke to this clearly and effectively. The current regime is
destroying the religion (Islam) in Iran, as well as the secular, cultural, economic, and political
foundations of Iran.
Mr. Fouad asked James how western allies and the U.S. in general can promote democratic
values in the world and specifically in the Middle East, even though we know, at the moment
they facing really challenging problems because they are doubtful about democratic values.
The polarization between republican conservatives and democrats or right-wing trends, if you
can call it. They are polarized more than any time before. And they are just… you can see that
in the Middle East they are just shrinking… they throw the Middle East in favor of other powers
coming to just occupy their historical influence… like China. So, how you…
Moji spoke with Mr. Fouad to be sure he understood the question and translated the question
from English to Persian.
James responded… before America can be effective anywhere in promoting democracy and
democratic values, it must first survive the neo-fascism that is on the rise in America. There are
currently places in America, like Florida and Texas, that are under the control of neo-fascist
governors. In 2024, America will have national elections for a new president and
representatives in the U.S. Congress. If the neo-fascist Re Trumplikkkan (Republican) Party
takes control of the White House, I don’t know if America will be able to do anything effectively
in any other part of the world. You must remember that America is a country that was created
on foundations of racism and white supremacy. That racism and white supremacy is currently
being used by the Republican (ReTrumplikkkan) Party to unconstitutionally promote the rise of
Christian nationalism and fascism in the U.S. So, it is really a matter, to some degree, of what
happens in the American election of 2024.
Mr. Fouad said, I meant exactly what James said. So, this extreme criticism of internal,
American politics, if you can call it. So, there is no room for international, democratic values
promotion or I don’t know, democratic building in the Middle East. This extreme criticism of
inside fascism you call it… If this way of speech or of dialect… we have one option. One, the
democrats take control or republicans with fascism… then only democrats are the good ones or
how you can manage that? I don’t understand this extreme criticism.
Moji wanted to say, the regime in Iran uses American undemocratic habits and exploitative
habits, and fascistic tendencies… it (Iranian regime) needs America as an enemy in order to
justify its own religious fascism. But Mr. Mossadegh said, “Internal despotism and external
colonialism are two sides of the same coin.” I am reminded of the interdependence of internal
despotism and external colonialism… when they need one another as enemies. The current
regime in Iran is actually reliant on the neo-fascism that is rising in America… in order to justify
its own fascism (religious dictatorship).
James continued… please do not misunderstand me. There are… the majority in America is
still made of people who prefer nonviolence and democracy. It is the minority of neo-fascist
people (Re Trumplikkkans) who are attempting to take control of the American government. It is
just like the majority of people in Iran are trying, many nonviolently, to work toward a democratic
government. The majority of people in America prefer that as well. That creates two people
who can work together.
Moji added… the commonality of a desire for democracy… creates the possibility for a channel
of communication between Iranians and Americans. That is what the Iranian Nonviolence
project is trying to do… create that communication.
James agreed… bringing together the nonviolent, democracy loving people of Iran and America.
Moji said, That’s exactly what Mr. Fouad (Iranian) and Mr. James (American) are doing…
communicating.
Mr. Fouad said, Mr. Jim said only a minority of Americans tend to fascism, if you can call it. But
if you mean the Trump supporters, they are half the voters in the last election. How can you
understand that? For example, forty-eight… forty percent of Americans voted in favor of Trump.
Then, you consider them all for fascism of how do you understand it? And second, a question
about nonviolent activism. I can understand that for democratic or western countries. But how
can nonviolence action work in countries like Iran or totalitarian regimes, like the Islamic
Republic or North Korea? I can’t imagine any result without violence in Iran. Or I mean
systematic violence.
James responded… this has been a discussion in the Iranian Nonviolence room before. The
tendency is to want to fight back when you are faced with violence from others. But the
research of people like Erica Chenoweth shows clearly that nonviolence has been more
successful around the world than violence in bringing about long-term social and political
change. Violence may bring about a short-term, quicker change. But it breeds more, ongoing
violence. It doesn’t settle any of the issues. The reality is that nonviolence may not succeed at
any given time. There is always that chance. But violence will not succeed either, not in the
long run.
As to Mr. Fouad’s other question about the almost half of American voters who voted for Trump.
I am referring to the hardcore Trump supporters, which is about thirty-five percent of the voters.
There are moderates, even in the Republican Party, who have gotten tired of Trump and are
trying to move away from him. There is also a group of voters who play a significant role in U.S.
elections, independent voters who are neither republicans nor democrats. These independent
voters and moderate republicans appear to finally be moving away from Trump and his
increasingly neo-fascist and often illegal behavior. Just as you see the current regime in Iran
destroying the country, independent voters and moderate republicans are realizing that Trump
and those who support him are literally destroying the democratic foundations of America.
Trump and thousands of his supporters tried to use a violent insurrection on January 6, 2021.
They violently attacked the U.S. Congress and tried to prevent the newly elected government of
President-elect Biden from taking control. Luckily, they failed. We are fighting for democracy in
America just as you in Iran against the Iranian Revolutionary regime.
Mr. Dada said he travels in the northern states of the U.S. He sees large signs rented by Trump
and his supporters. They say things that are scary. That’s an example of the kind of neo-
fascism that James is referring to. A concrete indication, huge signs, billboards rented by the
right-wing, Republican Party.
James added…the presence of massive amounts of corporate money supporting that fascism is
another aspect of the problem.
Moji said, it’s a collaboration of corporate money supporting fascism.
On that note, final thanks were given to all, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope
that the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
___________________
Session (15) -- Sunday, April 23, 2023
نشست (15) -- یکشنبه 3 اردیبهشت 1402
Part One of the Iranian Nonviolence discussion about the major two-part Persian language gathering (with many prominent presenters and prisoners inside Iran) called "Dialogue about Rescuing Iran" that was held on April 21 and 22, 2023 in Clubhouse.
Corrected bilingual written summary coming soon...
Moji welcomed everyone to the Clubhouse and ZOOM -- No recording of this session was made, due to technical issues.
Moji mentioned that Clubhouse has transitioned from clubs and houses to only houses. He
needs someone with communications technical expertise to help make the transition.
Therefore, there will be no recording of the proceedings. A second issue is that we need more
attendees in the weekly Iranian Nonviolence meetings. There are other Iran-related meetings at
the same time, which compete for attendees.
The meeting was opened up for general discussion.
Moji mentioned two things. First was a two-day meeting that was held in Iran of nonviolence
leaders. They reiterated their commitment to nonviolence as the appropriate approach. Most, if
not all, of these leaders are currently in jail or under house arrest. The meeting was criticized
heavily by hose who believe violent action against the current Iranian regime is needed to cause
regime change. The second thing was a visit to Israel by the Shah’s son. He met with the
Israeli Minister of Intelligence. The purpose of the meeting seemed two-fold. First, was the
Shah’s son seeking support for his being the future leader of Iran. The second, was to reassure
Israel and the U.S. that the Shah’s son would be Israel’s and America’s ally.
Dada talked further about the two-day meeting of nonviolence leaders. It included a wide range
of people, professors, civil leaders, and even a teenage poet. They agreed that nonviolent
action was the most appropriate and potentially effective response the current, religious
dictatorship’s brutal violence against the Women, Life, Freedom Movement. They agreed to
work together, both in and outside Iran. Moji and Dada agreed the meeting was a “significant
political event”.
Moji spoke further about the visit of the Shah’s son to Israel. The visit has played into the hands
of the current Iranian regime. They are saying that the Shah’s son’s visit to Israel is evidence
that the protest movement in Iran is not about democracy. Rather, it is about “selling Iran out to
Israel and the “great Satan, America. The visit has allowed the Iranian regime to distort the
nature of the Women, Life, Freedom Movement.
James commented, saying that the current, Islamic regime in Iran AND the Shah’s son are both
offering the same thing… dictatorship. The regime is currently oppressing the people with a
religious dictatorship. The Shah’s son is offering to return a secular dictatorship to Iran, like the
one his father used to oppress the people of Iran. Moji agreed.
Amy commented, saying that it was interesting to watch the people in power from different
countries try to push each other around. What is missing is that neither side is addressing the
needs of the people or placing power in the hands of the people. Amy said that what is needed
is to place political power into the hands of the people.
Learned Iranian man (Mr. Alijani) joined the meeting and was asked to comment on the two-day
meeting of Iranian nonviolence leaders. He said that nonviolence is not exclusive to this
moment or time in Iran. Nonviolence is essential for any effective and durable transition to
democracy. He went on to say that history has shown that the Iranian people are not a violent
people. However, he believes that some violence is always inevitable from those who are being Oppressed by the government. He declared that people would use some conditional and
defensive violence to protect people and the community when under attack. But it is important
that the violence be limited to defense and not become an aggressive attack.
James asked Learned Iranian Man, as someone who is currently living inside Iran, does he see
nonviolence as being a majority or minority position. He strongly indicated that the vast majority
(90%) of Iranians want a nonviolent transition. It is only the current regime that sees the use of
violence as appropriate.
James asked if there was any way for the members of Iranian Nonviolence to communicate with
the nonviolence leaders in Iran. Moji stated that he has been trying to do so. But the people
and nonviolence leaders in Iran are extremely vulnerable to violent retribution by the Iranian
regime. We must be very cautious to help ensure that the nonviolence leaders in Iran are as
safe as possible. We must not do anything that might put them at greater risk. Moji indicated
that Learned Iranian Man has some contact with the nonviolence leaders in Iran. They both
agreed that there are technical problems and problems of vulnerability that must be overcome.
On that note, final thanks were given, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope that
the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
___________________
Session (14) -- Sunday, April 16, 2023
نشست (14) -- یکشنبه 27 فروردین 1402
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
Clubhouse recording was not made due to changes in Clubhouse
ZOOM:
KEY POINTS of the meeting
نکات کلیدی جلسه
ترانه ی پر قدرت و الهام بخش "بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند" (بر اساس شعر معروف سعدی) به دلیل محدودیت وقت این برنامه پخش نشد. کلیپ را در اینجا ببینید
Powerful inspirational music and song (based on a famous poem by Sa'di) was not played due to the special circumstances of this exciting program. See this clip--with English subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
--------
سرود غرور انگیز خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی: "تفنگت را زمین بگذار" برای آغاز رسمی اتاق به دلیل محدودیت وقت این برنامه ویژه پخش نشد. این لینک را ببینید
The proud anthem of Iranian Nonviolence: “Lay Down Your Rifle” was not played (as the usual way of starting the room officially), given the special circumstances of today's exciting program. See this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
OUR GUESTS THIS WEEK, AND THE ROOM'S TOPIC:
Greg Coleridge and Jennie Spanos, National Co-Directors of Move to Amend, Discuss the Violence of Corporate "Personhood" and its Relevance to Iran
مهمانان این هفته ما و موضوع اتاق
گرگ کولریج و جنی اسپانوس، مدیران ملی سازمان "به پیش برای اصلاح قانون اساسی" آمریکا, در باره خشونت نهادینه شده در قوانین ثبت شرکت ها به عنوان "اشخاص" حقوقی و بویژه حقیقی و ارتباط چنین قوانینی با ایران صحبت میکنند
Different participants made these main points:
نکات اصلی مورد اشاره شرکت کنندگان جلسه
Corrected bilingual written summary coming soon...
Moji welcomed everyone to the Clubhouse and ZOOM. He introduced the two guest speakers,
Greg Coleridge, and Jennie Spanos. They are co-directors of the organization, Move to Amend,
which focuses on amending the U.S. Constitution.
Jennie, in Louisiana, spoke first to give an overview of Move to Amend (MTA) and describe its
work. Move to Amend was created following a Supreme Court decision in 2010 called Citizens
United. The decision declared that (1) A corporation is the same as a person and has the same
constitutional rights as a human being, and (2) Money is the same as free speech. This allowed
corporations to give politicians massive amounts of largely unregulated money during elections.
This led to corporations corrupting and “buying” elections. These both are “insane notions”,
which MTA decided to address on a large scale, proposing to amend the U.S. Constitution to
say (a) Corporations are NOT people and do not have the constitutional rights of a person, and
(b) Money is NOT free speech. Americans are sovereign people and must control the
government and not allow corporations to usurp that control.
Corporations are created and chartered by the government to provide specific products and/or
services. Since the Citizens United decision, corporations have “highjacked” human rights like
free speech. The Supreme Court recently gave the right of religious freedom to a corporation,
which then used it to coerce its employees. Examples of highjacked human rights go on and
on. At MTA, we centralize organization building nationally and locally in support of amending
the U.S. Constitution. When Citizens United is overturned, it will open up ways to protect
human rights and the environment.
James asked what specific activities MTA is engaged in to amend the Constitution. Jennie said
House Joint Resolution 54 to amend the Constitution was formally introduced into the 118 th
Congress. HJR 54 makes it clear that corporations are NOT people and money is NOT free
speech. The problem of “corporate personhood” did not begin with the Citizens United
decision. In 1886, the Supreme Court rendered a decision in the case, Santa Clara County vs.
the Southern Pacific Railroad. The 14 th Amendment, which was meant to free enslaved people
was used to say the railroad had the same rights as a person.
Cara asked about other MTA actions. Jennie said MTA is also working to “build a movement” to
create widespread support for the constitutional amendment. Without people coming together
and supporting an end to corporate personhood and money as free speech… the amendment
won’t have much impact on systemic change. So far, over 700 local counties, cities, and other
municipalities have passed resolutions in support of the constitutional amendment. The
Unitarian/Universalist church and over 700 organizations have also formally supported the
amendment. Over 490,000 people have signed petitions in support of the amendment. Jennie
concluded her remarks.
Greg Coleridge began his presentation on the connection of MTA’s work with peace and
nonviolence. Greg began his activism working for a Quaker, peace organization, the American
Friends Service Committee (AFSC). AFSC was begun in 1917 and received the Nobel Peace
Prize in 1947. Greg worked with AFSC for over 30 years on peace, justice, and humanitarian
issues. Being in America is being “in the belly of the beast” regarding wars and international
conflicts. The U.S. frequently uses violence to achieve its goals.
Greg expressed solidarity with our Iranian brothers and sisters in their efforts to achieve peace
and justice internally and externally. People who are affected by government decisions have a
right to be heard in shaping those decisions. That is the basic dignity and respect for all people
that should be shown by their government. The American revolution replaced a king with
control by the sovereign people through an elected, representative, democratic government.
However, real control in the U.S. has always been exercised by a small percentage of people…
like wealthy, male property owners. So, the larger population of people have had to fight for
representation and self-determination. That fight has involved amending the Constitution to
ensure the rights of broader groups of people (Women, blacks, indigenous people). Similar
struggles are going on around the world, including Iran. It is a “perpetual quest”. That requires
education and organizing to build movements. The movements that have been successful, as
seen in the research of Erica Chenoweth, have largely been nonviolent. So, MTA is focused on
passing the “We the People” amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is a difficult task
because the constitution was set up, from the beginning, to protect property and money rather
than people. There are similarities between this struggle and the struggle in Iran.
The nature of this struggle is seen in words written on the Department of Commerce Building. It
says, “Commerce overrides every wind, defies every tempest, and invades every zone.” The
words, override and invade are not words of justice, inclusion, nonviolence, or democracy. Yet,
these words guide U.S. policy, both internally (domestic) and externally (international). For
example, white Europeans and later Americans invaded and stole native lands and resources.
This emphasis on commerce and property can be seen in three co-dependencies, which
perpetuate violence. Each co-dependency has two realities, which need one another… to
justify one another. They will continue within the U.S. and between the U.S. and other
countries, including Iran, until we stop them. They are undemocratic and unjust.
The first co-dependency is corporate power and oligarchy. Corporate power includes the
insanity of corporate personhood. Companies are created to provide goods and services. Not
to supplant people and control the government. Oligarchy depends on corporations having
these unintended human rights so they, as a minority, corporations can highjack elections and
overrule the power of the people, the majority. So, the Supreme Court “rigged the system” by
giving human rights to corporations in 1886 and again in 2010 (Citizens United).
The second co-dependency is corporate commercial (economic) invasions and military
invasions. The sword and the U.S. dollar have always gone hand-in-hand. For example, the
U.S. made over 360 treaties with indigenous, native people and has broken all of them during
the same process of commercial invasion followed by military invasion. The treaties set aside
land for the native people. But then, settlers and fur traders moved illegally on to the land
(invaded), followed by corporate, commercial interests. Eventually, there is conflict between the
native people and the settlers and companies. The conflict becomes an excuse for the U.S.
military to invade the lands to “protect” the settlers and companies. The natives are defeated by
the military and their land and resources are stolen. The treaties, which were violated by the
settlers and companies, became worthless pieces of paper disregarded by the American
government. This internal process became America’s external, international pattern. American
businesses move into other countries and exploit the country, its resources, and its people.
This exploitation leads to conflict and the U.S. military invades, conquers, and occupies the
other country. Then U.S. businesses and the U.S. government get back to their exploitation.
Commercial interests that enter (invade) and exploit (plunder) other countries and their
resources is followed by American, military invasion and occupation.
The third co-dependency is U.S. invasions and undemocratic leaders in other countries.
America uses the rule of undemocratic leaders in some countries as an excuse to invade those
countries. The real reasons are military or economic. But the public excuse is to “save the
people” in that country and “expand democracy” or “create freedom”. The most obvious recent
examples were the invasions of Libya and Iraq. When countries want to exchange their goods
for other currencies than the U.S. dollars… America invades. All three of these co-
dependencies lead to injustice and violence. And they are components of America’s conflict
with Iran. The answer to all this is to live internally what we say we want to create externally.
People, not corporations controlling the government. Hence the move to amend the U.S.
Constitution.
Greg visited India to study Gandhian nonviolence at the Institute for Total Revolution (ITR). It
taught nonviolence as a personal behavior and a strategy for change nationally and
internationally. What Gandhi meant by total revolution was internal versus external
nonviolence. We have limited impact externally. So, the focus becomes expanding our
personal, internal nonviolence. We have lots more control over how we conduct ourselves and
relate to others. If we bring a deeply ingrained personal nonviolence to the table, we have a
much better chance to influence others and seek change on a larger scale in groups. This
requires more horizontal rather than vertical leadership, to bring the right values to the task of
building new institutions. This is how we achieve a totally, nonviolent revolution.
Moji reminded us that the processes (corporate personhood and invasion) described by Greg
were those used by the U.K. and America against democratic and secular government of Dr.
Mossadegh in Iran. That led to the despotic rule of the Shah, who allowed western exploitation
of Iranian oil. Greg agreed and said, the greatest fear of the corporate oligarchs and corrupt
politicians who support them is people who are independent of the economic and political power
structure, such as Dr. Mossadegh. Such independent leaders are committed to justice and
nonviolence. There was the International Nonaligned Movement (INM). These were countries
trying to be independent from both the west and east. Dr. Mossadegh was a member of the
INM. Tito, Nasser, Mossadegh, and Nehru were all part of that. The American CIA worked to
undermine the INM generally and Mossadegh specifically.
Moji pointed out, the oil companies and other corporations would not have been so powerful if
they had not been given personhood status. Jim mentioned that in the 1930s, General Smedley
Butler wrote a book called War Is A Racket. It described how the U.S. military has long been
used (misused) to invade other countries to protect American business interests… corporations.
It is the same process Greg described as part of the unjust and undemocratic co-dependencies,
which contributed to the corruption in building the American economic and political empire.
James stated that even now, the political perspective of the west is that either they or China will
control the future. The people are not considered in the equation.
Another person mentioned a recent article entitled, “War is Still a Racket”. It talked about the
future exploitation of Ukraine and its resources by western powers versus Russia as a
component of the current conflict. We are told that western support of Ukraine is to “protect
democracy”. But under the surface, you can see the “resource war” that is really going on…
with future control over resources in the balance… the U.S. versus Russia.
Moji pointed out that in the constitution of Iran, corporate personhood has shown up.
Amy asked Greg and Jennie, did the 1886 Supreme Court case really establish corporate
personhood for a railroad or was it just a headnote? Jennie said the case, as abused by the
court Justices, to misuse the 14 th Amendment to create corporate personhood. Consequently,
over 150 cases were brought by business entities, which used corporate personhood in
nefarious ways to carry out economic exploitation and “enslave everybody”.
Greg added, the Supreme Court made subsequent decisions establishing corporate railroads as
“persons”. Giving corporate entities the constitutional rights of a human being was a sudden
and major shift.
It was noted that the current MTA resolution in the 118 th Congress has over 20 co-sponsors.
Greg encouraged people to call their representatives and senators to encourage them to add
themselves as co-sponsors. Jennie said the resolution (House Joint Resolution 54) has to be
reintroduced every two years at each new Congress. That will continue until it is passed by
Congress. Moji stressed the importance of intersectional action. Greg said that MTA often
solicits the support of people from other groups to go with MTA members to talk with members
of Congress. This is often done on ZOOM to educate congressional aides to ensure they know
there was a time when corporations did not have artificially created human or constitutional
rights. These insane ideas of corporate personhood and money as free speech were created
and can be undone. That requires changing the structure (constitution) and the culture (the
supportive movement) that surrounds it. Again, Moji emphasized the importance of
intersectional action. A ZOOM attendee who works with a Friends Committee (Quakers) that
addresses agreed that working together and supporting each other has been extremely
important. Jennie agreed, saying, even in years that legislation isn’t passed, there is forward
movement. It is an empowering experience.
Moji said that it is difficult for some Iranians to be patient and work nonviolently because of the
violent brutality of the current regime toward the women’s freedom movement. Greg
understood that to mean some Iranian people believe the regime only understands violence.
Greg indicated that may be true and it’s difficult to imagine what Iranians are currently facing…
being arrested, imprisoned, or killed. It reminded Greg of young people in East Germany who
opposed the Stasi, brutal, violent, East German, secret police. They were organized as
religious organizations (Lutherans) and used them for cover. They came together to talk about
cultural, not political change. They also used literature and art to build community. There is
also people-to-people stuff going on like labor meetings, meetings of people of faith, and groups
like Iranian Nonviolence. Then, there are the people willing to speak out regardless of the
consequences. Then, when the regime overreacts with violence, people in the middle, more
moderate people, may change and support the freedom movement. It’s people in the middle
who might be afraid… those are the ones the movement tries to influence and get to act.
James mentioned that in earlier I.R. meetings, it was discussed that it would be powerful if some
more moderate mullahs within the regime would reach a point of saying, enough violence. We
can’t keep shooting our young people. That speaks to trying to influence those in the middle.
Greg mentioned an anti-nuclear weapons activist who focused on talking with Catholic Bishops
in every diocese in America. These were religious people who were impacted by the activist
and eventually came out against nuclear proliferation and forward deployment of nuclear
weapons.
Cara mentioned congressional Resolution 77, which addresses reducing nuclear weaponry.
She said it would be powerful if MTA and its affiliated organizations supported resolution 77 as it
is supporting resolution 54. That would be an intersectional action. Jennie said once corporate
personhood is eliminated, it will be much easier to address a wide variety of issues to include
reducing the number of nuclear weapons. MTA has endorsed other actions, but the strategic
plan focuses on resolution 54. Greg stated a written case needs to be made between the
intersection of the two resolutions. Cara encouraged an intersectional agreement on nuclear
weapons as a basic extension of human existence. Greg and Jennie reiterated the need for a
written case for intersection to present to the MTA board. Moji again emphasized the
importance of intersectional circles to build the systemic infrastructure across causes and
defragmenting civil society. He was encouraged that the discussion evolved in this direction.
James mentioned the waning time and asked if we could refocus on working against corporate
personhood as it relates to Iran.
Greg again stated, we Americans are “in the belly of the beast”. The question is, how can we
best help those in other countries, like Iran, to accomplish their goals. What drives injustice and
violence, and the plundering of people and their resources on the planet is U.S. foreign policy,
U.S. based transnational corporations, and the capitalist system, which has been corrupted in
the U.S. So, what we Americans need to do is focus on changing what is happening in
America. At the World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle in 1999 or 2000, it was stated
time and again that first worlders (America, Europe) need to change themselves, their
governments. It is a hell of a task, but that is what the MTA is committed to doing. In America’s
case, that involves fundamentally amending the U.S. Constitution and eliminating corporate
personhood, as well as the insane view of money as free speech. This is a global and local
problem, which must be addressed at both levels.
James called for any final questions or comments from anyone. There was no response. Moji
said he looked forward to working with everyone intersectionally. He said today addressed the
intersection of nonviolence and eliminating corporate personhood. Moji thanked Greg and
Jennie for making that case beautifully.
On that note, final thanks were given, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope that
the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
which focuses on amending the U.S. Constitution.
Jennie, in Louisiana, spoke first to give an overview of Move to Amend (MTA) and describe its
work. Move to Amend was created following a Supreme Court decision in 2010 called Citizens
United. The decision declared that (1) A corporation is the same as a person and has the same
constitutional rights as a human being, and (2) Money is the same as free speech. This allowed
corporations to give politicians massive amounts of largely unregulated money during elections.
This led to corporations corrupting and “buying” elections. These both are “insane notions”,
which MTA decided to address on a large scale, proposing to amend the U.S. Constitution to
say (a) Corporations are NOT people and do not have the constitutional rights of a person, and
(b) Money is NOT free speech. Americans are sovereign people and must control the
government and not allow corporations to usurp that control.
Corporations are created and chartered by the government to provide specific products and/or
services. Since the Citizens United decision, corporations have “highjacked” human rights like
free speech. The Supreme Court recently gave the right of religious freedom to a corporation,
which then used it to coerce its employees. Examples of highjacked human rights go on and
on. At MTA, we centralize organization building nationally and locally in support of amending
the U.S. Constitution. When Citizens United is overturned, it will open up ways to protect
human rights and the environment.
James asked what specific activities MTA is engaged in to amend the Constitution. Jennie said
House Joint Resolution 54 to amend the Constitution was formally introduced into the 118 th
Congress. HJR 54 makes it clear that corporations are NOT people and money is NOT free
speech. The problem of “corporate personhood” did not begin with the Citizens United
decision. In 1886, the Supreme Court rendered a decision in the case, Santa Clara County vs.
the Southern Pacific Railroad. The 14 th Amendment, which was meant to free enslaved people
was used to say the railroad had the same rights as a person.
Cara asked about other MTA actions. Jennie said MTA is also working to “build a movement” to
create widespread support for the constitutional amendment. Without people coming together
and supporting an end to corporate personhood and money as free speech… the amendment
won’t have much impact on systemic change. So far, over 700 local counties, cities, and other
municipalities have passed resolutions in support of the constitutional amendment. The
Unitarian/Universalist church and over 700 organizations have also formally supported the
amendment. Over 490,000 people have signed petitions in support of the amendment. Jennie
concluded her remarks.
Greg Coleridge began his presentation on the connection of MTA’s work with peace and
nonviolence. Greg began his activism working for a Quaker, peace organization, the American
Friends Service Committee (AFSC). AFSC was begun in 1917 and received the Nobel Peace
Prize in 1947. Greg worked with AFSC for over 30 years on peace, justice, and humanitarian
issues. Being in America is being “in the belly of the beast” regarding wars and international
conflicts. The U.S. frequently uses violence to achieve its goals.
Greg expressed solidarity with our Iranian brothers and sisters in their efforts to achieve peace
and justice internally and externally. People who are affected by government decisions have a
right to be heard in shaping those decisions. That is the basic dignity and respect for all people
that should be shown by their government. The American revolution replaced a king with
control by the sovereign people through an elected, representative, democratic government.
However, real control in the U.S. has always been exercised by a small percentage of people…
like wealthy, male property owners. So, the larger population of people have had to fight for
representation and self-determination. That fight has involved amending the Constitution to
ensure the rights of broader groups of people (Women, blacks, indigenous people). Similar
struggles are going on around the world, including Iran. It is a “perpetual quest”. That requires
education and organizing to build movements. The movements that have been successful, as
seen in the research of Erica Chenoweth, have largely been nonviolent. So, MTA is focused on
passing the “We the People” amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is a difficult task
because the constitution was set up, from the beginning, to protect property and money rather
than people. There are similarities between this struggle and the struggle in Iran.
The nature of this struggle is seen in words written on the Department of Commerce Building. It
says, “Commerce overrides every wind, defies every tempest, and invades every zone.” The
words, override and invade are not words of justice, inclusion, nonviolence, or democracy. Yet,
these words guide U.S. policy, both internally (domestic) and externally (international). For
example, white Europeans and later Americans invaded and stole native lands and resources.
This emphasis on commerce and property can be seen in three co-dependencies, which
perpetuate violence. Each co-dependency has two realities, which need one another… to
justify one another. They will continue within the U.S. and between the U.S. and other
countries, including Iran, until we stop them. They are undemocratic and unjust.
The first co-dependency is corporate power and oligarchy. Corporate power includes the
insanity of corporate personhood. Companies are created to provide goods and services. Not
to supplant people and control the government. Oligarchy depends on corporations having
these unintended human rights so they, as a minority, corporations can highjack elections and
overrule the power of the people, the majority. So, the Supreme Court “rigged the system” by
giving human rights to corporations in 1886 and again in 2010 (Citizens United).
The second co-dependency is corporate commercial (economic) invasions and military
invasions. The sword and the U.S. dollar have always gone hand-in-hand. For example, the
U.S. made over 360 treaties with indigenous, native people and has broken all of them during
the same process of commercial invasion followed by military invasion. The treaties set aside
land for the native people. But then, settlers and fur traders moved illegally on to the land
(invaded), followed by corporate, commercial interests. Eventually, there is conflict between the
native people and the settlers and companies. The conflict becomes an excuse for the U.S.
military to invade the lands to “protect” the settlers and companies. The natives are defeated by
the military and their land and resources are stolen. The treaties, which were violated by the
settlers and companies, became worthless pieces of paper disregarded by the American
government. This internal process became America’s external, international pattern. American
businesses move into other countries and exploit the country, its resources, and its people.
This exploitation leads to conflict and the U.S. military invades, conquers, and occupies the
other country. Then U.S. businesses and the U.S. government get back to their exploitation.
Commercial interests that enter (invade) and exploit (plunder) other countries and their
resources is followed by American, military invasion and occupation.
The third co-dependency is U.S. invasions and undemocratic leaders in other countries.
America uses the rule of undemocratic leaders in some countries as an excuse to invade those
countries. The real reasons are military or economic. But the public excuse is to “save the
people” in that country and “expand democracy” or “create freedom”. The most obvious recent
examples were the invasions of Libya and Iraq. When countries want to exchange their goods
for other currencies than the U.S. dollars… America invades. All three of these co-
dependencies lead to injustice and violence. And they are components of America’s conflict
with Iran. The answer to all this is to live internally what we say we want to create externally.
People, not corporations controlling the government. Hence the move to amend the U.S.
Constitution.
Greg visited India to study Gandhian nonviolence at the Institute for Total Revolution (ITR). It
taught nonviolence as a personal behavior and a strategy for change nationally and
internationally. What Gandhi meant by total revolution was internal versus external
nonviolence. We have limited impact externally. So, the focus becomes expanding our
personal, internal nonviolence. We have lots more control over how we conduct ourselves and
relate to others. If we bring a deeply ingrained personal nonviolence to the table, we have a
much better chance to influence others and seek change on a larger scale in groups. This
requires more horizontal rather than vertical leadership, to bring the right values to the task of
building new institutions. This is how we achieve a totally, nonviolent revolution.
Moji reminded us that the processes (corporate personhood and invasion) described by Greg
were those used by the U.K. and America against democratic and secular government of Dr.
Mossadegh in Iran. That led to the despotic rule of the Shah, who allowed western exploitation
of Iranian oil. Greg agreed and said, the greatest fear of the corporate oligarchs and corrupt
politicians who support them is people who are independent of the economic and political power
structure, such as Dr. Mossadegh. Such independent leaders are committed to justice and
nonviolence. There was the International Nonaligned Movement (INM). These were countries
trying to be independent from both the west and east. Dr. Mossadegh was a member of the
INM. Tito, Nasser, Mossadegh, and Nehru were all part of that. The American CIA worked to
undermine the INM generally and Mossadegh specifically.
Moji pointed out, the oil companies and other corporations would not have been so powerful if
they had not been given personhood status. Jim mentioned that in the 1930s, General Smedley
Butler wrote a book called War Is A Racket. It described how the U.S. military has long been
used (misused) to invade other countries to protect American business interests… corporations.
It is the same process Greg described as part of the unjust and undemocratic co-dependencies,
which contributed to the corruption in building the American economic and political empire.
James stated that even now, the political perspective of the west is that either they or China will
control the future. The people are not considered in the equation.
Another person mentioned a recent article entitled, “War is Still a Racket”. It talked about the
future exploitation of Ukraine and its resources by western powers versus Russia as a
component of the current conflict. We are told that western support of Ukraine is to “protect
democracy”. But under the surface, you can see the “resource war” that is really going on…
with future control over resources in the balance… the U.S. versus Russia.
Moji pointed out that in the constitution of Iran, corporate personhood has shown up.
Amy asked Greg and Jennie, did the 1886 Supreme Court case really establish corporate
personhood for a railroad or was it just a headnote? Jennie said the case, as abused by the
court Justices, to misuse the 14 th Amendment to create corporate personhood. Consequently,
over 150 cases were brought by business entities, which used corporate personhood in
nefarious ways to carry out economic exploitation and “enslave everybody”.
Greg added, the Supreme Court made subsequent decisions establishing corporate railroads as
“persons”. Giving corporate entities the constitutional rights of a human being was a sudden
and major shift.
It was noted that the current MTA resolution in the 118 th Congress has over 20 co-sponsors.
Greg encouraged people to call their representatives and senators to encourage them to add
themselves as co-sponsors. Jennie said the resolution (House Joint Resolution 54) has to be
reintroduced every two years at each new Congress. That will continue until it is passed by
Congress. Moji stressed the importance of intersectional action. Greg said that MTA often
solicits the support of people from other groups to go with MTA members to talk with members
of Congress. This is often done on ZOOM to educate congressional aides to ensure they know
there was a time when corporations did not have artificially created human or constitutional
rights. These insane ideas of corporate personhood and money as free speech were created
and can be undone. That requires changing the structure (constitution) and the culture (the
supportive movement) that surrounds it. Again, Moji emphasized the importance of
intersectional action. A ZOOM attendee who works with a Friends Committee (Quakers) that
addresses agreed that working together and supporting each other has been extremely
important. Jennie agreed, saying, even in years that legislation isn’t passed, there is forward
movement. It is an empowering experience.
Moji said that it is difficult for some Iranians to be patient and work nonviolently because of the
violent brutality of the current regime toward the women’s freedom movement. Greg
understood that to mean some Iranian people believe the regime only understands violence.
Greg indicated that may be true and it’s difficult to imagine what Iranians are currently facing…
being arrested, imprisoned, or killed. It reminded Greg of young people in East Germany who
opposed the Stasi, brutal, violent, East German, secret police. They were organized as
religious organizations (Lutherans) and used them for cover. They came together to talk about
cultural, not political change. They also used literature and art to build community. There is
also people-to-people stuff going on like labor meetings, meetings of people of faith, and groups
like Iranian Nonviolence. Then, there are the people willing to speak out regardless of the
consequences. Then, when the regime overreacts with violence, people in the middle, more
moderate people, may change and support the freedom movement. It’s people in the middle
who might be afraid… those are the ones the movement tries to influence and get to act.
James mentioned that in earlier I.R. meetings, it was discussed that it would be powerful if some
more moderate mullahs within the regime would reach a point of saying, enough violence. We
can’t keep shooting our young people. That speaks to trying to influence those in the middle.
Greg mentioned an anti-nuclear weapons activist who focused on talking with Catholic Bishops
in every diocese in America. These were religious people who were impacted by the activist
and eventually came out against nuclear proliferation and forward deployment of nuclear
weapons.
Cara mentioned congressional Resolution 77, which addresses reducing nuclear weaponry.
She said it would be powerful if MTA and its affiliated organizations supported resolution 77 as it
is supporting resolution 54. That would be an intersectional action. Jennie said once corporate
personhood is eliminated, it will be much easier to address a wide variety of issues to include
reducing the number of nuclear weapons. MTA has endorsed other actions, but the strategic
plan focuses on resolution 54. Greg stated a written case needs to be made between the
intersection of the two resolutions. Cara encouraged an intersectional agreement on nuclear
weapons as a basic extension of human existence. Greg and Jennie reiterated the need for a
written case for intersection to present to the MTA board. Moji again emphasized the
importance of intersectional circles to build the systemic infrastructure across causes and
defragmenting civil society. He was encouraged that the discussion evolved in this direction.
James mentioned the waning time and asked if we could refocus on working against corporate
personhood as it relates to Iran.
Greg again stated, we Americans are “in the belly of the beast”. The question is, how can we
best help those in other countries, like Iran, to accomplish their goals. What drives injustice and
violence, and the plundering of people and their resources on the planet is U.S. foreign policy,
U.S. based transnational corporations, and the capitalist system, which has been corrupted in
the U.S. So, what we Americans need to do is focus on changing what is happening in
America. At the World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle in 1999 or 2000, it was stated
time and again that first worlders (America, Europe) need to change themselves, their
governments. It is a hell of a task, but that is what the MTA is committed to doing. In America’s
case, that involves fundamentally amending the U.S. Constitution and eliminating corporate
personhood, as well as the insane view of money as free speech. This is a global and local
problem, which must be addressed at both levels.
James called for any final questions or comments from anyone. There was no response. Moji
said he looked forward to working with everyone intersectionally. He said today addressed the
intersection of nonviolence and eliminating corporate personhood. Moji thanked Greg and
Jennie for making that case beautifully.
On that note, final thanks were given, and the meeting was closed in the expressed hope that
the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, peace, and justice.
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
___________________
Session (13) -- Sunday, April 9, 2023
نشست (13) -- یکشنبه 20 فروردین 1402
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
KEY POINTS of the meeting
نکات کلیدی جلسه
ترانه ی پر قدرت و الهام بخش "بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند" (بر اساس شعر معروف سعدی) به دلیل محدودیت وقت پخش نشد. کلیپ را در اینجا ببینید
Powerful inspirational music and song (based on a famous poem by Sa'di) was not played due to the short duration of this program. See this clip--with English subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
---------
سرود غرور انگیز خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی: "تفنگت را زمین بگذار" برای آغاز رسمی اتاق به دلیل محدودیت وقت پخش نشد. این لینک را ببینید
The proud anthem of Iranian Nonviolence: “Lay Down Your Rifle” was not played (as the usual way of starting the room officially), given the limited duration of today's program. See this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
OUR SPECIAL PROGRAM THIS WEEK:
Re-broadcast of Siamak Dehghanpour's special program on nonviolence; with its highlight, an interview with Prof. Dr. Cornel West -- Its original English version is herein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
برنامه این هفته ما
ویژه برنامه: جنبش خشونت پرهیز؛ از آمریکا تا ایران, و مصاحبه اختصاصی
با پروفسور شهیر آمریکایی, دکتر کورنل وست
Different participants made these main points:
نکات اصلی مورد اشاره شرکت کنندگان جلسه
لینک های اتاق این هفته
The links to this week's room
CLUBHOUSE: https://www.clubhouse.com/
Meeting ID: 849 6455 3179 ** Pass Code: peace
Sunday, April 9, 2023 -- 11:30 AM (Pacific time, Western U.S.)
یکشنبه -- 20 فروردین 1402 -- ساعت ده شب ایران
Re-broadcast (and translation) of Siamak Dehghanpour's special program on nonviolence; with its highlight, an interview with Prof. Dr. Cornel West -- Its original English version is herein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
ویژه برنامه -- به زبان فارسی: جنبش خشونت پرهیز؛ از آمریکا تا ایران, و مصاحبه اختصاصی با پروفسور شهیر آمریکایی, دکتر کورنل وست
https://ir.voanews.com/a/
Corrected bilingual written summary coming soon...
Moji must leave on a flight from Colorado to Arizona to begin a multi-state speaking tour about the Iranian Nonviolence project and what is currently happening in Iran.
Today, our room offered the January 19, 2023, interview of Dr. Cornel West, a philosopher, and a Professor at Harvard and Princeton universities. He is also a lifelong peace, nonviolence, and civil rights activist. The interviewer was Siamak Dehghanpour of the VOA Persian Media.
Dr. West expressed solidarity with his Iranian brothers and sisters who are currently being violently suppressed by the regime ruling Iran. He considered this a “moral and spiritual stance” consistent with his support of the dignity, freedom, and rights of every human being.
Dr. West specifically mentioned the current Woman, Life, Freedom (WLF) Movement, which began with protests following the arrest and killing of Mahsa Amini, a Kurdish Iranian woman arrested by the Morality Police for “wearing her hijab incorrectly.”
Dr. West described Persians as a “great people,” whose poetry is a “gift to the world.” He said this poetry has stood against all repression, be it from the Shah, the U.S./U.K. overthrow of the democratic government of Dr. Mossadegh, or the current oppression by the Islamic mullahs. He sees the WLF movement as offering a real possibility for basic change. Dr. West said that the movement needs to have leadership to emerge, in order to channel the righteous indignation of the people.
>>>>>
He sees similarities between the violence faced during the American civil rights
struggle and the current struggle of the WLF movement. Dr. West said Iran has a magnificent
heritage (Rumi, et. al.) but a sad political history with dictators like the Shah and Khomeini. He
believes Iranians in the diaspora need to work together despite their differences to create a
“collective expression” of all Iranians. Further, Dr. West would like to see a split between the
mullahs, with some saying that the violence against protesting Iranians must stop. “Stop killing
our children and give women more freedom. In the U.S. civil rights struggle there were some in
the elite leadership who supported the civil rights movement. People from the top to the bottom
must overcome “cowardliness, callousness, and indifference” and call out oppression and keep
the focus on those who are suffering.
Dr. West spoke of women in movements and patriarchy. He called patriarchy a barrier and said
the movement in Iran needs leaders willing to give of themselves regardless of gender. He
referred to the “ugly patriarchal face of the IRR” and called for change. But Dr. West went on to
say that working for women’s freedom was only the starting point. The movement needs to
come to address all human dignity and rights… universally. He said that the things that need to
change; patriarchy, racism, white supremacy, sexism, homophobia, etc. reside in all of us
influenced by America and Europe. We need to fight those things every day.
Dr. West was asked about the changing relationship between men and women in the civil rights
movement and if that was pertinent to Iran’s situation. He spoke of “strong, confident, and
assertive women” who rose up and were centrally involved in the U.S. civil rights movement.
He sees the same thing happening in Iran with women and girls in the vanguard of the WLF
movement. Once women have participated in such movements and helped foundational
change to occur, they rightfully are not willing to go back to a life of simple obedience and
passivity. Supporting women as they transition and become more centrally involved is essential
to the future success of the movement. It must be egalitarian.
Dr. West was asked about the role of religion in the movement. He said that religion can be
used to divide and oppress people as is happening with the IRR. Religion must forego those
behaviors and should “commit to justice” for all people. That is the commonality of all
religions… treating others as you would like to be treated. The movement must accept people
from diverse backgrounds, as long as there is this commitment to justice for all. If we cannot
find solidarity in our principles among diverse groups, our “specie will go under”.
Dr. West was asked about the use of nonviolence as the way to respond to the brutality and
violence of the IRR. Dr. West differs from Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in this regard.
They viewed nonviolence as the only appropriate response to the violence of others. Dr. West
is more like Nelson Mandela was in South Africa fighting the white apartheid regime. Mandela
used nonviolence for a long time. But then decided it had reached a point of being ineffective.
So, Mandela endorsed violence against property, but not against people.
Dr. West says to “pursue nonviolence as far as it will go.” He believes nonviolence is greatly
preferred because violence tends to become an unending spiral of back-and-forth violence. An
eye for an eye with everyone ending up blind. However, Dr. West does think there is such a
thing as “justified violence” when you must defend yourself or be destroyed. He said that some
dictators must be fought and used Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot as examples. Dr. West warned
that such justified violence should be a last resort used sparingly and carefully. He emphasized
that “violence is not a plaything.” “It is the worst of human impulses to want to kill another
human.” The implication appeared to be that IF the IRR becomes “Hitler-like” in dealing with its
people, THEN violence may be a necessary response to the brutality of the IRR. The line
between taking nonviolence as far as it will go, but then using violence in response to a brutal,
government regime was left vague and undefined in any detail.
Dr. West went on to reiterate that what Iran truly needs is a major moral and spiritual split
between the mullahs in the government, the military, and police. Some in each of those
institutions needs to split from the majority and take a moral and spiritual stand of conscience…
Enough is enough… we’re not going to shoot our young people anymore; women should have
more freedom. Only as the people see the mullahs, police, and politicians say, “Enough is
enough”, can the people rebuild any trust. Dr. West appeared to see such things happening
(a split among the elite in control) as necessary for nonviolence to succeed on its own. Dr.
West went on to say, “I have confidence in the Iranian people. There is a greatness that cannot
be destroyed. Iran has been invaded but always came back.
Dr. West was asked if the movement in Iran needed a single, prominent leader to succeed, such
as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in the U.S. civil rights movement. He responded that a “wave of
leaders” willing to give of themselves was what was needed. While Dr. King was prominent in
the civil rights movement, it took many leaders for the movement to succeed. The same is true
in the WLF movement in Iran. Dr. West said that it takes a wave of leaders, all willing to suffer
in the effort to expose the suffering of the people, for a movement to succeed. In spite of Jim
Crow laws, violence, and lynchings… the civil rights movements had many such leaders. Dr.
West also spoke of black elites in America… black people with wealth and some power. He
said they too had to take a courageous stand in support of civil rights or simply become
“peacocks” of the repressive system. Those with wealth and power in Iran must show some
courage and need to join and support the WLF movement.
In closing, Dr. West was asked if he had a message for young people. He replied that you need
to use every venue (cinema, sports, political events, etc.) and every opportunity to “touch the
hearts, minds, and souls of the people.” Be courageous and speak the truth about what needs
to be changed. Dr. West said we must create our life like a work of art… pouring ourselves into
the world to make it a better place.
NOTE: In another video of an interview with Dr. West, he spoke of “prophetic fire”… being ready
to show integrity, honesty, decency, and generosity. But it was courage, which he defined as
the “enabling virtue”. We must show courage.
After the presentation of Dr. West’s interview regarding Iran and its people, the floor was
opened for comments and discussion.
Amy was particularly struck by two points; the emphasis on honoring everyone’s dignity and
moral consistency… supporting the dignity of all people everywhere in the world. Oppression
must be called out everywhere it occurs.
Mr. Tahbadi in Tehran said that many people are so frustrated by the brutality of the Iranian
regime that they want to justify the use of violence against the regime. They don’t want to wait
in a “dying pot”. He asked how can we address the frustration of these people? People around
me (in Iran) are so frustrated that they see violence against the regime as the only way. I don’t
know if Dr. West’s talk would answer their frustrations or not. Moji indicated that Dr. West’s
position includes “justified Violence”, which is like the conditional self-defense that has been
discussed in earlier meetings of I.N. Moji sees conditional self-defense as an inseparable part
of nonviolent resistance, i.e. self-defense to defend yourself, your family, or your community.
Moji believes if you do nothing in the face of violence, you “encourage more violence”. “You
reward brutality.” “You have the right to defend yourself… defensively, not offensively or taking
revenge.” Moji assured everyone, “We can continue to talk of these things and our differences
in the coming weeks and months.”
Amy added, it is a complicated question, it is good that we are exploring it here in I.N. She said,
“I have no judgement of people having so much frustration in the face of such brutality, they
want to hit back. We all experience some of that. Exactly where the line is between self-
defense and aggressive violence is difficult to sort out. I respect Dr. King’s purist view of no
violence at all. America is a country that uses the “just war principle” to perpetrate violence
everywhere on the planet. So, I’m much more interested in finding where we can switch to
nonviolence. It is often the case that oppressed people are facing those with far more ability to
wage violence. Often, responding to the oppressors with violence is exactly what the
oppressors want. It gives oppressors an excuse to become more brutal against the people
standing up for freedom and dignity.
Moji said conditional self-defense is his interpretation of Kingian, Gandhian, Mandelaian, and
Mossadeghian nonviolence. Moji added, These combined with the writing of Rumi, Hafez, and
other luminaries of Iranian heritage, in my opinion, leads to conditional self-defense being
inseparably part of nonviolent struggle.
Amy went on, there are different levels at which we are looking at nonviolence. One is a
strategically used tactic of a movement. The other is in your everyday life (using violence to
immediately defend yourself or another person). There are important differences between those
different levels.
It was time for Moji to close the room and leave for the airport. As a quick final comment,
James mentioned Dr. West’s comments about a “split” between the mullahs in Iran with some
saying, “Enough is enough”… no more shooting nonviolent protesters. He asked that we talk
more about that and Iranian tactics if it does not happen.
On that note, final thanks were given, and the meeting was closed in the hope expressed that
the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, and peace.
heritage (Rumi, et. al.) but a sad political history with dictators like the Shah and Khomeini. He
believes Iranians in the diaspora need to work together despite their differences to create a
“collective expression” of all Iranians. Further, Dr. West would like to see a split between the
mullahs, with some saying that the violence against protesting Iranians must stop. “Stop killing
our children and give women more freedom. In the U.S. civil rights struggle there were some in
the elite leadership who supported the civil rights movement. People from the top to the bottom
must overcome “cowardliness, callousness, and indifference” and call out oppression and keep
the focus on those who are suffering.
Dr. West spoke of women in movements and patriarchy. He called patriarchy a barrier and said
the movement in Iran needs leaders willing to give of themselves regardless of gender. He
referred to the “ugly patriarchal face of the IRR” and called for change. But Dr. West went on to
say that working for women’s freedom was only the starting point. The movement needs to
come to address all human dignity and rights… universally. He said that the things that need to
change; patriarchy, racism, white supremacy, sexism, homophobia, etc. reside in all of us
influenced by America and Europe. We need to fight those things every day.
Dr. West was asked about the changing relationship between men and women in the civil rights
movement and if that was pertinent to Iran’s situation. He spoke of “strong, confident, and
assertive women” who rose up and were centrally involved in the U.S. civil rights movement.
He sees the same thing happening in Iran with women and girls in the vanguard of the WLF
movement. Once women have participated in such movements and helped foundational
change to occur, they rightfully are not willing to go back to a life of simple obedience and
passivity. Supporting women as they transition and become more centrally involved is essential
to the future success of the movement. It must be egalitarian.
Dr. West was asked about the role of religion in the movement. He said that religion can be
used to divide and oppress people as is happening with the IRR. Religion must forego those
behaviors and should “commit to justice” for all people. That is the commonality of all
religions… treating others as you would like to be treated. The movement must accept people
from diverse backgrounds, as long as there is this commitment to justice for all. If we cannot
find solidarity in our principles among diverse groups, our “specie will go under”.
Dr. West was asked about the use of nonviolence as the way to respond to the brutality and
violence of the IRR. Dr. West differs from Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in this regard.
They viewed nonviolence as the only appropriate response to the violence of others. Dr. West
is more like Nelson Mandela was in South Africa fighting the white apartheid regime. Mandela
used nonviolence for a long time. But then decided it had reached a point of being ineffective.
So, Mandela endorsed violence against property, but not against people.
Dr. West says to “pursue nonviolence as far as it will go.” He believes nonviolence is greatly
preferred because violence tends to become an unending spiral of back-and-forth violence. An
eye for an eye with everyone ending up blind. However, Dr. West does think there is such a
thing as “justified violence” when you must defend yourself or be destroyed. He said that some
dictators must be fought and used Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot as examples. Dr. West warned
that such justified violence should be a last resort used sparingly and carefully. He emphasized
that “violence is not a plaything.” “It is the worst of human impulses to want to kill another
human.” The implication appeared to be that IF the IRR becomes “Hitler-like” in dealing with its
people, THEN violence may be a necessary response to the brutality of the IRR. The line
between taking nonviolence as far as it will go, but then using violence in response to a brutal,
government regime was left vague and undefined in any detail.
Dr. West went on to reiterate that what Iran truly needs is a major moral and spiritual split
between the mullahs in the government, the military, and police. Some in each of those
institutions needs to split from the majority and take a moral and spiritual stand of conscience…
Enough is enough… we’re not going to shoot our young people anymore; women should have
more freedom. Only as the people see the mullahs, police, and politicians say, “Enough is
enough”, can the people rebuild any trust. Dr. West appeared to see such things happening
(a split among the elite in control) as necessary for nonviolence to succeed on its own. Dr.
West went on to say, “I have confidence in the Iranian people. There is a greatness that cannot
be destroyed. Iran has been invaded but always came back.
Dr. West was asked if the movement in Iran needed a single, prominent leader to succeed, such
as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in the U.S. civil rights movement. He responded that a “wave of
leaders” willing to give of themselves was what was needed. While Dr. King was prominent in
the civil rights movement, it took many leaders for the movement to succeed. The same is true
in the WLF movement in Iran. Dr. West said that it takes a wave of leaders, all willing to suffer
in the effort to expose the suffering of the people, for a movement to succeed. In spite of Jim
Crow laws, violence, and lynchings… the civil rights movements had many such leaders. Dr.
West also spoke of black elites in America… black people with wealth and some power. He
said they too had to take a courageous stand in support of civil rights or simply become
“peacocks” of the repressive system. Those with wealth and power in Iran must show some
courage and need to join and support the WLF movement.
In closing, Dr. West was asked if he had a message for young people. He replied that you need
to use every venue (cinema, sports, political events, etc.) and every opportunity to “touch the
hearts, minds, and souls of the people.” Be courageous and speak the truth about what needs
to be changed. Dr. West said we must create our life like a work of art… pouring ourselves into
the world to make it a better place.
NOTE: In another video of an interview with Dr. West, he spoke of “prophetic fire”… being ready
to show integrity, honesty, decency, and generosity. But it was courage, which he defined as
the “enabling virtue”. We must show courage.
After the presentation of Dr. West’s interview regarding Iran and its people, the floor was
opened for comments and discussion.
Amy was particularly struck by two points; the emphasis on honoring everyone’s dignity and
moral consistency… supporting the dignity of all people everywhere in the world. Oppression
must be called out everywhere it occurs.
Mr. Tahbadi in Tehran said that many people are so frustrated by the brutality of the Iranian
regime that they want to justify the use of violence against the regime. They don’t want to wait
in a “dying pot”. He asked how can we address the frustration of these people? People around
me (in Iran) are so frustrated that they see violence against the regime as the only way. I don’t
know if Dr. West’s talk would answer their frustrations or not. Moji indicated that Dr. West’s
position includes “justified Violence”, which is like the conditional self-defense that has been
discussed in earlier meetings of I.N. Moji sees conditional self-defense as an inseparable part
of nonviolent resistance, i.e. self-defense to defend yourself, your family, or your community.
Moji believes if you do nothing in the face of violence, you “encourage more violence”. “You
reward brutality.” “You have the right to defend yourself… defensively, not offensively or taking
revenge.” Moji assured everyone, “We can continue to talk of these things and our differences
in the coming weeks and months.”
Amy added, it is a complicated question, it is good that we are exploring it here in I.N. She said,
“I have no judgement of people having so much frustration in the face of such brutality, they
want to hit back. We all experience some of that. Exactly where the line is between self-
defense and aggressive violence is difficult to sort out. I respect Dr. King’s purist view of no
violence at all. America is a country that uses the “just war principle” to perpetrate violence
everywhere on the planet. So, I’m much more interested in finding where we can switch to
nonviolence. It is often the case that oppressed people are facing those with far more ability to
wage violence. Often, responding to the oppressors with violence is exactly what the
oppressors want. It gives oppressors an excuse to become more brutal against the people
standing up for freedom and dignity.
Moji said conditional self-defense is his interpretation of Kingian, Gandhian, Mandelaian, and
Mossadeghian nonviolence. Moji added, These combined with the writing of Rumi, Hafez, and
other luminaries of Iranian heritage, in my opinion, leads to conditional self-defense being
inseparably part of nonviolent struggle.
Amy went on, there are different levels at which we are looking at nonviolence. One is a
strategically used tactic of a movement. The other is in your everyday life (using violence to
immediately defend yourself or another person). There are important differences between those
different levels.
It was time for Moji to close the room and leave for the airport. As a quick final comment,
James mentioned Dr. West’s comments about a “split” between the mullahs in Iran with some
saying, “Enough is enough”… no more shooting nonviolent protesters. He asked that we talk
more about that and Iranian tactics if it does not happen.
On that note, final thanks were given, and the meeting was closed in the hope expressed that
the people of Iran will soon find a life with dignity, safety, and peace.
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
___________________
Session (12) -- Sunday, April 2, 2023
نشست (12) -- یکشنبه 13 فروردین 1402
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
ZOOM--on YouTube // زوم در یوتوب
OUR GUESTS THIS WEEK, AND THE ROOM'S TOPIC:
Two leaders of New Hampshire Peace Action (Amy Antonucci and Will Hopkins) return to our room to offer the second part of their presentations, which is focused this week on Iran, Iraq, and the critical role nonviolence plays in helping the region move toward democracy and good governance.
مهمانان این هفته ما و موضوع اتاق
رهبران سازمان مدنی "آشتی در عمل" (شعبه ایالت نیوهمشایر آمریکا) یعنی خانم ایمی آنتونوچی و آقای ویل هاپکینز, این هفته به اتاق ما برمیگردند, تا قسمت دوم سخنرانی های خود را ارائه دهند, با تمرکز بر ایران، عراق و نقش مهمی که خشونت پرهیزی در روند حرکت منطقه به سوی دموکراسی و حکمرانی خوب ایفا میکند
KEY POINTS of the meeting
نکات کلیدی جلسه
ترانه ی پر قدرت و الهام بخش "بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند" (بر اساس شعر معروف سعدی) پخش شد. کلیپ را در اینجا ببینید
Powerful inspirational music and song (based on a famous poem by Sa'di) was played. See this clip--with English subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
---------
سرود غرور انگیز خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی: "تفنگت را زمین بگذار" برای آغاز رسمی اتاق پخش شد. این لینک را ببینید
The proud anthem of Iranian Nonviolence: “Lay Down Your Rifle” was played to start the room officially. See this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Different participants made these main points:
نکات اصلی مورد اشاره شرکت کنندگان جلسه
Moji greeted all and wished everyone a Happy Iranian New Year's 13th and last day of the celebrations. James greeted all and commented on the ballad "Lay Down Your Rifle," wishing it to be the ballad of America to end all the mass shootings with AR-15 military assault rifles. Then, Moji introduced our guests, Will Hopkins and Amy Antonucci from New Hampshire Peace Action. He announced Amy is now a new co-host for Iranian Nonviolence. We deeply welcome the feminine perspective to our room, one of whose purposes is to support Iran's "Woman, Life, Freedom" nonviolent uprising. مجتبی به همه سلام کرد و ضمن تبریک مجدد سال نو, سیزدهمین و آخرین روز جشن نوروز را به همه تهنیت گفت. جیمز هم به همه سلام کرد و درباره سرود "تفنگت را زمین بگذار" آرزو کرد که این تصنیف آمریکا هم باشد, تا بلکه به تمام تیراندازی های وحشتناک جمعی (با تفنگ های جنگی) پایان دهد. سپس مجتبی مهمانان اتاق, یعنی ویل هاپکینز و ایمی آنتونوچی (از گروه "آشتی در عمل" نیوهمشایر) را معرفی, و اعلام کرد که ایمی خانوم اکنون یک میزبان جدید خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی است. ما عمیقاً از دیدگاه زنانه در این اتاق استقبال می کنیم, زیرا یکی از اهداف مان حمایت از خیزش خشونت پرهیز "زن، زندگی، آزادی" ایران است
Remarks by Will Hopkins
سخنان ویل هاپکینز
Will greeted all, and said he was anxious to have a conversation with the “folks in Iran.” His journey to becoming a peace activist was through Iraq as a U.S. infantry soldier (2004-2005), which left him knowing that all around the world people are basically the same, i.e., we all want to be safe, fed, and loved, and for our families and friends to have a good life with dignity. When war happens, it is the innocent children who suffer the most. These realizations led Will to dedicate his life to working for a more peaceful world and restraining the U.S. from engaging in warfare. ویل با همه احوالپرسی کرد و گفت که بویژه مشتاق گفتگو با «مردم داخل ایران» است. سفر او برای تبدیل شدن به یک فعال صلح از طریق جنگ عراق میگذرد, به عنوان یک سرباز پیاده نظام ایالات متحده (2004-2005)، که باعث شد او عمیقا درک کند که مردم در سراسر جهان اساساً یکسان هستند، یعنی همه ما میخواهیم در امان باشیم، غذا داشته باشیم, عشق بورزیم, و اینکه برای خانواده ها و دوستانمان زندگی خوب و با عزت میخواهیم. وقتی جنگ اتفاق می افتد، این کودکان بی گناه هستند که بیشترین آسیب را می بینند. این درک باعث شد که ویل زندگی خود را وقف کار برای جهانی صلح‌آمیزتر کند, و بویژه ایالات متحده را از درگیر شدن در جنگ باز دارد
Will said that Iran has a rich history of nonviolence. Poets like Rumi (and Zoroaster, the forefather of ethical monotheism) and Prime Minister Mossadegh, as a statesman, saw a democratic and nonviolent way forward for humanity, for all nations. One constant was the U.S. military-industrial complex wanting to invade Iraq. There is no better way to slow and stop war than to make friends among those who the leaders say “should be our enemies.” Thus, Will’s hope comes from the connections Iranians and Americans are making, for example in Iranian Nonviolence and the Internet, which has made conversations like today’s possible. The connections and friendships of today can help reduce conflict and the possibility of war into the future. ویل گفت که ایران تاریخی غنی در زمینه خشونت پرهیزی دارد. شاعرانی مانند مولانا (و زرتشت، پدر توحید اخلاقی) و نخست وزیر مصدق، به عنوان یک دولتمرد، راهی دموکراتیک و خشونت پرهیز را برای بشریت، برای همه ملت ها, می دیدند. یکی از موارد ثابت، مجتمع نظامی-صنعتی ایالات متحده بود که می خواست به عراق حمله کند. هیچ راه بهتری برای کند کردن و توقف روند جنگ وجود ندارد, بجز ایجاد دوستی در میان کسانی که رهبران می‌گویند «باید دشمنان ما باشند.» بنابراین، امید ویل به ارتباطاتی است که ایرانی‌ها و آمریکایی‌ها برقرار میکنند، برای مثال خشونت‌پرهیزی ایرانی در اینترنت، که گفت‌وگوهایی مانند امروز را در این اتاق ممکن کرده است. ارتباطات و دوستی های امروز میتواند به کاهش درگیری ها و احتمال جنگ در آینده کمک کند
Will shared a story about the dignity of people during the Iraq war. It took place at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Baghdad. Will was in uniform and with a weapon. The walkway was lined with the helmets of Iranian soldiers who had died during the Iran-Iraq War, placed there so people would walk over them. Will said seeing this "sickened me" because it insulted the dignity of fallen soldiers (in this case Iranians) no matter from where. No soldier should be insulted in this way. ویل یک تجربه زیسته اش درباره کرامت مردم در طول جنگ عراق را به اشتراک گذاشت. این رویداد در مقبره سرباز گمنام در بغداد رخ داد. ویل یونیفورم پوشیده و با سلاح بود. زمین گذرگاه منتهی به مقبره با کلاهخودهای سربازان ایرانی ای که در جنگ ایران و عراق کشته شده بودند، فرش شده شده بود تا مردم از روی آنها عبور کنند. ویل گفت دیدن این صحنه "حالم را بهم زد" زیرا به حیثیت سربازان کشته شده (مهم نیست از کجای دنیا--و در این مورد ایرانیان) توهین کرد. به هیچ سربازی نباید اینطور اهانت کرد
Two Iraqi guards stood at the Tomb, and it was clear that this place was considered to be sacred. Sadly, the Tomb had been desecrated with graffiti by American soldiers and military contractors. Will expressed his deep shame, as a U.S. soldier, to the Iraqi guards. دو نگهبان عراقی کنار مقبره سرباز گمنام ایستاده بودند, که معلوم بود مکانی مقدس است. اما متأسفانه، ساختمان مقبره توسط سربازان و پیمانکاران نظامی آمریکایی با گرافیتی هتک حرمت شده بود. ویل شرم عمیق خود را (به عنوان یک سرباز آمریکایی) به نگهبانان عراقی ابراز کرد
Such an experience of shame and disgust was reinforced in Will, when he saw the lives and the human dignity of ordinary Iraqi people being hurt and disrupted by the U.S. occupation, at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and in the daily lives of Iraqis. Such memories have helped motivate Will’s work for nonviolence and peace. He emphasized that war is the opposite of justice and peace AND the opposite of human dignity.
چنین تجربه ای از شرم و انزجار در درون ویل دوباره تقویت شد، زمانی که او مشاهده کرد که زندگی روزمره و حیثیت انسانی مردم عادی عراق توسط اشغالگری ایالات متحده (از جمله در مقبره سرباز گمنام) آسیب جدی دیده و عمیقا مخدوش شده است. چنین خاطراتی به ویل انگیزه تلاش خستگی ناپذیر برای صلح و خشونت پرهیزی هدیه کرده است. او تاکید کرد که جنگ نقطه مقابل عدالت و صلح و متضاد کرامت انسانی است
Will concluded his remarks by saying that just as there was a U.S. push to invade Iraq, now there is the same push in America to attack Iran, and thus the fate of Iran's people has been on Will’s mind--as he tries to find ways to slow or stop that push. He does not want Iranians to suffer, as did the Iraqis, from yet another American war. If we can become friends, we will never undermine each other’s dignity, so war becomes less possible. ویل در پایان سخنان خود چنین گفت: همانطور که ایالات متحده برای حمله به عراق تبلیغات و تلاش می کرد، اکنون نیز همین فشار در آمریکا برای حمله به ایران وجود دارد؛ و بنابراین ذهن ویل دغدغه مند سرنوشت مردم ایران است, در حالی که او تلاش می کند برای کند کردن یا توقف آن فشار راه هایی بیابد. او نمی‌خواهد که ایرانی‌ها، مانند عراقی‌ها، از یک جنگ دیگر آمریکا آسیب ببینند. اگر بتوانیم با هم دوست شویم و هرگز حیثیت یکدیگر را خدشه دار نکنیم، احتمال بروز جنگ کمتر می شود
Discussion
بحث
Q- By a female teacher (from inside Iran) asked of Will: Did you see widespread hatred of Iranians among Iraqis, resulting in them allowing the walkway at the Tomb to be paved with the helmets of Iranian soldiers? س- توسط یک معلم زن (از داخل ایران) که از ویل پرسید: آیا نفرت گسترده ای از ایرانیان در میان مردم عراق مشاهده کردید, که در نتیجه آنها اجازه دادند که راهروی آرامگاه با کلاه ایمنی سربازان ایرانی سنگ فرش شود؟
Q- By a female teacher (from inside Iran) asked of Will: Did you see widespread hatred of Iranians among Iraqis, resulting in them allowing the walkway at the Tomb to be paved with the helmets of Iranian soldiers? س- توسط یک معلم زن (از داخل ایران) که از ویل پرسید: آیا نفرت گسترده ای از ایرانیان در میان مردم عراق مشاهده کردید, که در نتیجه آنها اجازه دادند که راهروی آرامگاه با کلاه ایمنی سربازان ایرانی سنگ فرش شود؟
A- Other than the helmet incident, Will did not hear or see evidence of such widespread hatred. But he said that a central part of the training of every soldier is to demonize and dehumanize the opponent. The helmets were likely part of that training effort. ج- بجز آن حادثه در مقبره سرباز گمنام, ویل شواهد بیشتری از چنین نفرت گسترده ای نشنیده و ندیده است, ولی گفت که بخش مرکزی آموزش تمام سربازان شیطان جلوه دادن و غیرانسان فرض کردن حریف است. آن صحنه در مقبره احتمالاً بخشی از این آموزش نظامی بوده است
Moji welcomed Mr. Naser Alijani, and reported that he has joined Iranian Nonviolence as a commentator, whereby he will have regular segments in future weeks called Alijani’s Views on Violence and Nonviolence. مجتبی ضمن خوشامدگویی به آقای ناصر علیجانی، گزارش داد که او به عنوان مفسر به خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی پیوسته است و در هفته‌های آینده بخش‌هایی با عنوان "دیدگاه‌های علیجانی درباره خشونت و خشونت پرهیزی" به اتاق عرضه خواهد کرد
A friend of Mr. Alijani, also from inside Iran was introduced, who said he was anxious to hear from Americans. یکی از دوستان آقای علیجانی, او هم از داخل ایران, معرفی شد که گفت مشتاق شنیدن صحبت های شرکت کنندگان آمریکایی اتاق است
Q: By Mike in Kansas City: Oil and controlling access to fossil fuels always seem to be an issue in wars, such as Mossadegh and the nationalization of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, and war for oil in Iraq. Oil and pipelines are even a concern currently in Ukraine. As we work for peace, what is the role of oil in war? س: از مایک در کانزاس: به نظر میرسد که نفت و کنترل دسترسی به سوخت های فسیلی همیشه نقش اصلی را در جنگ ها داشته, از جمله عراق--و در ایران زمان مصدق و ملی شدن نفت؛ و حالا هم نفت و گاز و خطوط لوله حامل آن حتی در جنگ اوکراین نقش دارد. از دید ما که برای صلح تلاش می کنیم، نقش نفت در جنگ چیست؟
A- By Will: The U.S. foreign policy is driven largely by access to fossil fuels. Those who benefit are American and British oil companies and the politicians who support them. Most of the decisions made by the U.S. government are based on what the few people with the most money and power want. The common people are largely overlooked. Massive money is a problem that corrupts the main political parties in the U.S. and our government at all levels. The influence of access to and control of oil and gas (and their pipelines) has been central in the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine and elsewhere. Part of the struggle for peace in America includes reducing the influence of big money and fossil fuels on the government. Shifting to renewable energy is also important. ج- توسط ویل: سیاست خارجی ایالات متحده عمدتاً با هدف دسترسی به سوخت های فسیلی هدایت می شود. کسانی که سود می برند شرکت های نفتی آمریکایی و انگلیسی و سیاستمدارانی هستند که از آنها حمایت می کنند. بسیاری از تصمیمات اتخاذ شده توسط دولت ایالات متحده بر اساس آن چیزی است که معدود افراد دارای بیشترین پول و قدرت می خواهند. مردم عادی تا حد زیادی نادیده گرفته می شوند. پول هنگفت مشکلی است که احزاب سیاسی اصلی در آمریکا و دولت ما را در همه سطوح فاسد می کند. کنترل و دسترسی به نفت و گاز (و خطوط لوله آن) نفوذ بسیار مخربی در برپایی جنگ در عراق، افغانستان، لیبی، اوکراین و جاهای دیگر داشته است. بخشی از مبارزه برای صلح در آمریکا شامل تلاش جهت کاهش نفوذ پول کلان و لابی شرکت های غول پیکر سوخت های فسیلی بر دولت است؛ و تغییر به سمت انرژی های تجدیدپذیر هم خیلی مهم است
A- By Amy--the room's other guest: It is not just fossil fuels, but scarce resources of many kinds (for example lithium), which lead to conflicts in many areas of the world. The insatiable desire for more resources is a fundamental attitude we must challenge. We need to shift back to the indigenous values of being grateful for what we have, and distributing resources equitably. There are already people living that way who are wonderful examples for the rest of us. They live with minimal demands on Mother Earth and with respect for resource limitations, and recognize the need for equitable sharing across generations. Also, Earth’s resources do not belong only to humans.
ج- توسط ایمی - مهمان دیگر اتاق: مساله فقط سوخت های فسیلی نیست، بلکه منابع کمیاب از انواع مختلف (مثلا لیتیوم) است که منجر به درگیری در بسیاری از مناطق جهان می شود. میل سیری ناپذیر برای منابع بیشتر یک نگرش اساسی است که باید آن را به چالش بکشیم. ما باید به ارزش‌های بومی که قدردانی برای آنچه داریم و توزیع عادلانه منابع را تجویز میکنند باز گردیم. در حال حاضر افراد بسیاری این راه را زندگی می کنند و نمونه های شگفت انگیزی برای بقیه ما هستند. آنها با حداقل تقاضا از زمین (مادر همه ما) و با احترام به محدودیت های منابع زندگی خود را ادامه می دهند و نیاز به اشتراک عادلانه بین نسل ها را هم تشخیص می دهند. و به همچنین, منابع زمین فقط متعلق به ما انسان ها نیست
Q- By Mark--in Arizona: Across the many faiths and religions of the world, what are the ways they can be a source for unity, not just division? س- از مارک در آریزونا: در ادیان و مذاهب جهان، چه راه‌هایی وجود دارد که میتوانند منبعی برای وحدت و نه فقط تفرقه باشند؟
A- By Will: I was raised as a Unitarian-Universalist. So we visited other people’s worship services across all faiths, such as mosques, temples, and churches. All faiths have one Truth in common: The Divine calls on us to love, respect, protect, and support the dignity of one another. We are to treat others as we would like to be treated, namely the Golden Rule. True spirituality is to uphold the humanity, the dignity of others with love and respect. An indigenous view of faith in relating to others is: "You are my other me." We can use our faith to highlight divisions or to draw us together.
ج- توسط ویل: من با آموزه های کلیسای "وحدت گرایان جهانی گرا" بزرگ شده ام, و بنابراین, ما از مراسم عبادت دیگر ادیان در (مثلا) مساجد، معابد, و دیگر کلیساها بازدید می کردیم. همه ادیان یک حقیقت مشترک دارند: خداوند ما را به عشق، احترام، محافظت و حمایت از کرامت یکدیگر فرا می خواند. ما باید با دیگران همانطور رفتار کنیم که دوست داریم با ما رفتار شود، یعنی همان قانون طلایی. معنویت واقعی این است که انسانیت و کرامت دیگران را با عشق و احترام حفظ کنیم. دیدگاه بومی ایمان در ارتباط با دیگران این است: "تو من دیگر منی." ما میتوانیم از ایمان خود برای برجسته کردن اختلافات و یا اشتراکات استفاده کنیم
Moji said: Religion has the potential to make us aware of our interconnectedness.
مجتبی گفت: دین این پتانسیل را دارد که ما را از به هم پیوستگی خود آگاه کند
A- By Debbie--in Washington State: In the book "Arise My Love” a mystic said: “You be the best you can be and I will be the best I can be.” دبی در ایالت واشنگتن گفت: در کتاب "عشق من برخیز" یک عارف گفت: "تو بهترینی که می توانی باشی باش و من بهترین فردی که میتوانم باشم خواهم بود
Moji said: Be the best person you can be, no matter your faith or religion.
مجتبی گفت: فارغ از دین و مذهبت بهترین کسی باش که می توانی باشی
Q- By Mr. Alijani: My thought is that most violence is perpetrated by governments and huge corporations. In my segments in the coming weeks, I will try to focus on various forms of violence; personal, social, institutional, and governmental violence against people. My question for the people in ZOOM and Clubhouse is: What are concrete ways that we can PREVENT violence, especially violence perpetrated by rulers and governments? س- توسط آقای علیجانی: به نظر من, بیشتر خشونت ها توسط دولت ها (و شرکت های بزرگ) انجام می شود. در بخش های تقدیمی خود به اتاق, در هفته های آینده، سعی خواهم کرد بر اشکال مختلف خشونت تمرکز کنم. خشونت شخصی، اجتماعی، نهادی و البته دولتی علیه مردم. سوال من از حاضران در اتاق زوم و کلاب هاوس این است: راه های مشخص برای جلوگیری از خشونت، به ویژه خشونت اعمال شده توسط حاکمان و دولت ها چیست؟
A- By Debbie: It is not a simple thing. It has to do with turning upside down one’s own world view, and that of one's country. It has to do with changing from worshipping money to worshipping God, or worshipping the good for all people. ج- از دبی: جلوگیری از خشونت چیز ساده ای نیست. این به وارونه کردن جهان بینی فرد و کشورش مربوط می شود؛ یعنی تغییر از پرستش پول به پرستش خدا یا پرستش خیر برای همه مردم
A- By Will: There is no one single right answer. But it is possible to stop our governments from perpetrating violence. It takes a variety of struggles. First is education to counter the hate-filled narratives pushed by the media and their corporate sponsors. Next is organizing to effect change on our political system and elected officials. Next is effectively mobilizing people to engage in direct public action and civil disobedience, in order to slow down and interrupt the war machine; and most important, building community to be less alone, and continually reminding each other that we are more powerful together. We must keep in mind (and be patient with) the fact that we can do everything right and still lose battles to the regime or government. But we can stop war and violence if we persist together with nonviolence. It has been so in the past. ج- توسط ویل: هیچ (تنها) پاسخ درستی وجود ندارد. اما میتوان دولت‌هامان را از اعمال خشونت باز داشت--که این به مبارزات متنوع نیاز دارد. اول، آموزش برای مقابله با روایات مملو از نفرت است که توسط رسانه ها و حامیان مالی آنها در شرکت های غول پیکرانجام می شود. سازماندهی بعدی برای ایجاد تغییر در نظام سیاسی و مقامات انتخابی ماست. مرحله بعدی، بسیج مؤثر مردم برای شرکت در کنشگری های مستقیم عمومی و نافرمانی مدنی، به منظور کاهش سرعت و ایجاد وقفه در ماشین جنگ است. و مهمتر از همه، ایجاد یک جامعه همدل برای کمتر تنها ماندن؛ و برای این همه, نیاز داریم به یادآوری مداوم به یکدیگر این نکته که با هم قدرتمندتر هستیم. ما باید این واقعیت را در نظر داشته باشیم (و صبور باشیم) که می توانیم همه چیز را درست انجام دهیم و هنوز در تلاش ها مان بر علیه رژیم یا دولت شکست بخوریم, اما باید به یاد داشته باشیم که می توانیم جنگ و خشونت را متوقف کنیم اگر خشونت پرهیز مبارزه کنیم--در گذشته نیز چنین بوده است
A- By Amy: Fortunately there are many ways to contribute to stopping violence and war. We can step in wherever we feel called. And we must also trust others to do their part, i.e., we need to really trust each other. I will leave the concrete examples to others.
ج- از ایمی: خوشبختانه راه های زیادی برای کمک به توقف روند خشونت و جنگ وجود دارد. ما میتوانیم در هر جایی که احساس کنیم میتوانیم موثر باشیم وارد کنشگری خشونت پرهیز شویم. و همچنین باید به دیگران اعتماد کنیم که وظیفه خود را انجام می دهند--یعنی باید واقعاً به یکدیگر اعتماد کنیم. دادن مثال های عینی را به دیگر حاضران در جلسه واگذار می کنم
A- After explaining how he became a co-host of Iranian Nonviolence, James said that all the concrete ideas highlighted by Will, Amy, and others are excellent, but we must work at them. In America, we have been taught to expect, as our right, more than our reasonable share of the world’s resources. So many Americans, especially the super wealthy and powerful, are loath to give up their excess resources. I believe that the greatest teacher for Americans about limited resources will be Mother Nature, the changing climate. These changes will reduce resources and require that we survive on less. Also, many who cannot adjust to the coming changes and limitations will be lost. We will learn the indigenous value, the lesson to be thankful for what we have. ج- جیمز پس از توضیح چگونگی تبدیل شدنش به یکی از مجریان برنامه خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی, گفت که تمام ایده‌های مشخصی که ویل، ایمی و دیگران برجسته کرده‌اند عالی هست, ولی ما باید همواره روی آنها کار کنیم. در آمریکا به ما آموخته اند که به عنوان حق خود, بیش از سهم معقول مان از منابع جهان را مصرف کنیم. بنابراین بسیاری از آمریکایی‌ها، به‌ویژه افراد فوق العاده ثروتمند و قدرتمند، از خودخواهی دست نمی کشند و کماکان اسراف منابع را ادامه می دهند. من معتقدم که بزرگترین معلم برای آمریکایی های خودخواه محدودیت منابع مادر طبیعت, در نتیجه تغییرات وحشتناک اقلیمی خواهد بود, زیرا این تغییرات منابع را کاهش می دهد و مجبورمان خواهد کرد با امکانات بسیار کمتر قناعت کنیم. در ضمن, بسیاری از کسانی که نمی توانند خود را با تغییرات و محدودیت های آینده وفق دهند، از دست خواهند رفت. ما مجبورا ارزش های مردمان بومی این سیاره را یاد خواهیم گرفت، درس شکرگزار بودن و قناعت به آنچه داریم
A- By Cara: The arc of the moral universe bends toward justice--and Moji interjected that a comedian recently said gravity does not cause this bending, however--We need an intersection of all people, a critical mass, like when the bicycle riders blocked traffic in a big way in New York. We need to get together more. People seeking peace and justice nonviolently. An example was January 31st in the U.S. House of Representatives, with Resolution 77 for the treaty to prohibit nuclear warfare. Representative McGovern offered the resolution and soon others joined him. We need a critical mass of people in the streets to support it. Sadly, so far all the supporters in the House are only Democrats. It needs to become nonpartisan.
ج- از کارا--در آریزونا: قوس جهان اخلاقی به سمت عدالت خم می شود (و در اینجا مجتبی گفت که یک کمدین اخیراً گفت گرانش باعث این خمیدگی نمی شود)؛ ما برای گرد آمدن جمعیت مورد نیاز, به همکاری همه مردم نیاز داریم، مانند زمانی که دوچرخه سواران ترافیک را در شهر نیویورک به شدت مسدود کردند. ما مردمی که خشونت پرهیزانه به دنبال صلح و عدالت هستیم, باید بیشتر و همکارانه دور هم جمع شویم. به عنوان مثال, در 31 ژانویه در مجلس نمایندگان ایالات متحده قطعنامه شماره 77 برای حمایت از معاهده منع جنگ هسته ای ارائه شد, بوسیله نماینده مک گاورن, و بزودی دیگران به او پیوستند. ما به توده‌ی بزرگی از مردم در خیابان‌ها نیاز داریم تا از اینگونه حرکت ها حمایت کنند. اما متأسفانه، تاکنون تمام حامیان این قطعنامه مجلس فقط از حزب دموکرات هستند, در حالی که حمایت از این قانون باید غیر حزبی باشد
Moji said that Cara will be our room's guest in the 1st week of May. مجتبی گفت که خانم کارا در ماه اردیبهشت مهمان اتاق ما خواهد بود
Q- By an Iranian participant, in Tehran, Iran, who wanted to speak directly to the American audience. Why even when the U.S. Supreme Court was not in conservative hands, liberal voices did not do enough to overturn the "Citizens United" law, to end the political corruption caused by massive, corporate financial contributions? س- توسط یک شرکت کننده ایرانی در تهران، ایران, که می خواست مستقیماً با مخاطبان آمریکایی صحبت کند. چرا حتی زمانی که دادگاه عالی ایالات متحده در دست محافظه‌کاران نبود، صداهای لیبرال به اندازه کافی برای لغو قانون جلوگیر پایان یافتن فساد سیاسی ناشی از کمک‌های مالی عظیم شرکت‌های غول پیکر تلاش نکردند؟
A- By Will: Sadly, the American political system generally requires candidates to raise millions in campaign money, and very few can get around this system. So, in the U.S. Congress, MOST politicians benefit financially from the corrupt system (massive corporate contributions) allowed by the "Citizens United" law, so, it is not clear that even “liberal” politicians want to overturn it. ج- توسط ویل: متأسفانه، سیستم سیاسی آمریکا عموماً از نامزدها می‌خواهد که میلیون‌ها دلار پول برای کمپین انتخاباتی خود جمع‌آوری کرده, و تعداد بسیار کمی میتوانند از این سیستم عبور کنند. بنابراین، در کنگره ایالات متحده، اکثر سیاستمداران از سیستم عمیقا فاسد (کمک های عظیم شرکت های غول پیکر و شعبه های کوچک شان) که این قانون مجاز کرده، سود مالی می برند؛ و بنابراین، روشن نیست که حتی سیاستمداران "لیبرال" بخواهند (یا بتوانند) این سیستم را اصلاح ساختاری کنند
Q: By the same man in Iran: Why aren’t there more like “The Squad” in the U.S. Congress? The Squad are four ultra-liberal women in Congress; Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Ilhan Omar, who do not accept corporate contributions. The majority in Congress allow and benefit financially from the corrupt corporate contribution system. So it remains, and few, like the Squad can get elected without taking corrupt money. س: توسط همان مرد در ایران: چرا در کنگره ایالات متحده نمایندگان زن بسیار پیشرو بیشتری (مثل رشیده طلیب، آیانا پرسلی، الکساندریا اوکازیو-کورتز، و ایلهان عمر--که کمک های مالی شرکت های بزرگ و کوچک را نمی پذیرند) وجود ندارد؟ اکثریت نمایندگان کنگره از این سیستم فاسد کمک های غیرمردمی سود می برند, و اجازه می دهند تداوم داشته باشد. بنابراین این نظام فاسد کننده دمکراسی بر سر جای خود باقی می ماند, و فقط تعداد بسیار کمی (مانند گروه نامبرده در بالا) می توانند بدون گرفتن پول فاسد انتخاب شوند
Q- By a female psychologist inside Iran: We are hearing a lot about the American political struggles. We need to hear more concrete ideas for what Iranians can do in the current situation with the violent regime? س- توسط یک روانشناس زن در داخل ایران: ما داریم در مورد مبارزات سیاسی در آمریکا زیاد می شنویم. ما باید به ایده های ملموس تری برسیم, که ایرانیان در شرایط کنونی علیه این رژیم خشن چه کاری می توانند انجام دهند؟
Moji said that Iranian Nonviolence is an ongoing platform for Iranians and Americans to share their experiences. Over time, all of this will contribute to a deeper understanding of the culture of Iranian nonviolence and how to respond to the current, highly violent Iranian regime. So, please be patient. مجتبی گفت که اتاق خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی بستری مستمر است برای ایرانیان و (بویژه) آمریکایی ها جهت به اشتراک گذاشتن تجربیات کنشگرانه مردمی. با گذشت زمان، همه این تبادلات به درک عمیق‌تر گفتمان خشونت پرهیزی و در نتیجه نحوه سازنده مواجهه با رژیم به شدت خشن حاکم ایران کمک میکند. پس لطفا صبور باشید
Q- By a leading female teacher activist in Iran: Have there been studies about the appropriate age to involve children in nonviolent resistance and activities? س- توسط یک بانو از فعالان شناخته شده جنبش معلمان ایران: آیا مطالعاتی در مورد سن مناسب برای مشارکت دادن کودکان در فعالیت ها و مقاومت های خشونت پرهیز انجام شده است؟
A- By Will: I know of no studies about the minimum age for activism. But, nonviolence activities require lots of discipline and training, especially when dealing with a government willing to use violence against its people. When we talk about children or young people, while courage is needed, there are other roles to be considered for them. At this moment in time, young Iranian women are teaching all of us, by example, as to how nonviolence can work, be effective, and affect power structures. ج- توسط ویل: من هیچ مطالعه ای در مورد حداقل سن برای فعالیت خشونت پرهیز نخوانده ام. اما، فعالیت‌های خشونت‌پرهیز مستلزم نظم و انضباط و بویژه آموزش زیادی است، به‌ویژه زمانی که با حکومتی مواجه هستیم که مایل به استفاده از خشونت علیه مردمش است. وقتی در مورد کودکان یا نوجوانان صحبت می کنیم، در حالی که جسارت و شجاعت لازمه مبارزه خشونت پرهیز است، نقش های دیگری نیز برای این گروه های سنی میتوان در نظر گرفت. در این برهه از زمان، زنان جوان ایرانی به عنوان مثال الهام بخش همه ما هستند, بویژه ما آمریکایی ها, و دارند به ما آموزش می دهند که چگونه خشونت پرهیزی می تواند موثر باشد, و بر ساختارهای قدرت تأثیر جدی بگذارد
A- By Amy: Going back a little, the Squad are all women. One of the most significant leverage points for change is in empowering women and girls. As far as the age when to involve young people in nonviolence, depending on the type of nonviolence roles we are talking about, involving children pretty early is possible. Donna Hicks' book talks of working with elementary school children on embodying dignity, nonviolence, and mutual support in the classroom. It is not appropriate for children to go out on the street, where there is physical violence. But we can teach nonviolence to very young children in the classroom. ج- توسط ایمی: کمی به عقب برگردیم، به همه زنان بسیار مترقی نماینده مردم در کنگره امریکا نگاه کنید. یکی از مهمترین اهرم های فشار برای ایجاد تغییر، توانمندسازی زنان و دختران است. در مورد زمانی که میتوان کودکان و نوجوانان را در مبارزه خشونت پرهیز وارد کرد، این بستگی دارد به انواع گوناگون نقش‌های خشونت‌پرهیز مورد نیاز جنبشی که در مورد آن صحبت میکنیم، اما مشارکت دادن کودکان در مراحل اولیه مبارزه هم ممکن است. کتاب دانا هیکس در باره کار کرامت بخش حتی با کودکان دبستانی در کلاس درس هم صحبت میکند, که بخشی از این کار آموزش خشونت پرهیزی و نحوه حمایت متقابل به آنان است. و البته بیرون فرستادن کودکان برای مبارزه خیابانی, جایی که خطر خشونت فیزیکی وجود دارد مناسب نیست. اما ما می توانیم خشونت پرهیزی را در کلاس درس به کودکان بسیار خردسال هم آموزش دهیم
Q- By an Iranian outside Iran, from Will: How was the reaction of Iraqi people when the U.S. forces invaded the country? س- توسط یک ایرانی خارج از کشور از ویل: واکنش مردم عراق در زمان حمله نیروهای آمریکایی به کشورشان چگونه بود؟
A- By Will: I joined the U.S. Army because I wanted to defend my family and country. The Iraqis who resisted the U.S. invasion were defending their own home and country. Some Iraqis, whom Saddam had hurt, were glad the Americans removed him. But when I was in Iraq (2004 to 2005) most Iraqis had tired of the American presence. Many Iraqis said they trusted their own Army to protect them, however, when the U.S. dissolved the Iraqi Army, most Iraqis lost trust in the U.S. presence. ج- توسط ویل: من به ارتش ایالات متحده پیوستم زیرا می خواستم از خانواده و کشورم دفاع کنم. عراقی هایی که در برابر تهاجم آمریکا مقاومت می کردند هم در حال دفاع از خانه و کشور خود بودند. برخی از عراقی ها که صدام به آنها صدمه زده بود، از این خوشحال شدند که آمریکایی ها او را برکنار کردند. اما زمانی که من در عراق بودم (2004 تا 2005) اکثر عراقی ها از حضور آمریکا خسته شده بودند. بسیاری از عراقی‌ها میگفتند که به ارتش خود برای محافظت از جان و مال و کشورشان اعتماد داشتند, اما زمانی که امریکا ارتش عراق را بکلی منحل کرد، اکثر عراقی‌ها اعتماد خود را به حضور ایالات متحده از دست دادند
Q- By another Iranian man: For the past six months the Iranian regime has been brutally violent against its own people, i.e., those protesting nonviolently for freedom. They have brutally shot, blinded, imprisoned, hanged, and poisoned people. I believe we need a certain level of violence, not civil war, but some level of violence to defeat the current regime. Without some violence it will take longer to remove the regime.
س- توسط یک مرد دیگر ایرانی دیگر: رژیم ایران در شش ماه گذشته به طرز وحشیانه ای علیه مردم خود، یعنی کسانی که برای آزادی تظاهرات خشونت پرهیز داشتند، خشونت کرده است. آنها بیرحمانه به مردم تیراندازی کرده, آنها را کور، زندانی, اعدام, و مسموم کرده اند. من معتقدم که برای شکست رژیم کنونی به سطح خاصی از خشونت نیاز داریم، نه جنگ داخلی، بلکه به سطح معینی از خشونت. بدون هیچ خشونتی حذف این رژیم سفاک بیشتر طول خواهد کشید
A- By Will: As an American, I cannot tell Iranians in Iran (while I am sitting safely in America) how to resist the regime. But I can talk about (now Professor) Erica Chenoweth, a graduate student who did her Ph.D. research trying to prove that violence was necessary for change, that violence is superior to nonviolence. What she discovered, however, was that statistically, movements that could maintain nonviolence have been more effective than violent movements in effecting change. Those movements, since 1939, that did not allow violence in the struggle, were more successful than movements that used violence. ج- توسط ویل: من به عنوان یک آمریکایی نمی توانم به ایرانیان بویژه داخل ایران (در حالی که در آمریکا در ساحل امن نشسته ام) بگویم چگونه در برابر رژیم مقاومت کنند. اما من می توانم در مورد (اکنون پروفسور) خانم اریکا چنووت، دانشجوی دوره تحصیلات تکمیلی که تز دکترای خود را گذرانده صحبت کنم. تحقیقاتی که در آن او تلاش داشت ثابت کند که خشونت برای تغییر ضروری است، که خشونت بر خشونت‌پرهیزی برتری دارد. با این حال، آنچه او کشف کرد این بود, از نظر علمی-آماری، که جنبش‌های قادر به حفظ خشونت‌پرهیزی مؤثرتر از جنبش‌های خشونت‌آمیز در ایجاد تغییر بوده‌اند. جنبش‌هایی که از سال 1939 به بعد اجازه استفاده از خشونت در مبارزه را ندادند، موفق‌تر از جنبش‌هایی بودند که از خشونت استفاده می‌کردند
Moji interjected that he was proud to note that Erica Chenoweth, along with Noam Chomsky and Cornel West, endorsed his Circles of Nonviolence project, also known as Intersectional Circles. مجتبی گفت که به این افتخار میکند که اریکا چنووت، همراه با نوام چامسکی و کرنل وست، پروژه حلقه‌های خشونت‌پرهیز او را (که حالا به عنوان حلقه‌های همکاری مدنی جنبش های گوناگون شناخته میشود) تأیید کردند
Will continued: I do not know the culture of Iran and have not experienced the brutality of the regime. But for me, nonviolence is a personal spiritual practice, and one I strategically believe in. ویل ادامه داد: من فرهنگ ایران را نمی شناسم و سبعیت رژیم را تجربه نکرده ام. اما برای من، خشونت پرهیزی یک دیسیپلین معنوی و شخصی است, و از نظر استراتژیک هم به آن اعتقاد دارم
Q- By another man from inside Iran: The discourse of nonviolence is a worthy one. But, does Will believe that the U.S. sanctions, which punish all of the people of Iran, are a form of violence? س- توسط مرد دیگری از داخل ایران: گفتمان خشونت پرهیزی گفتمان شایسته ای است. اما آیا ویل معتقد است که تحریم‌های آمریکا. که همه مردم ایران را مجازات میکند هم نوعی خشونت است؟
A- By Will: YES, absolutely! Sanctions target the most vulnerable people in society, to pressure governments. Sanctions are beyond violence, a brutal act of war, and immoral. New Hampshire Peace Action opposes the American sanctions. ج- توسط ویل: بله، قطعا! تحریم ها آسیب پذیرترین افراد جامعه را هدف قرار می دهند تا دولت ها را تحت فشار بگذارند. تحریم فراتر از خشونت، یک اقدام وحشیانه جنگی و شدیدا غیراخلاقی است. گروه "آشتی در عمل" نیوهمشایر (که ویل مدیر آن است) با تحریم های آمریکا مخالف است
Q- By another female teacher activist, from inside Iran: My question is about conditional or legitimate defense of a person or community that has been attacked?
س- توسط یکی دیگر از فعالان زن جنبش معلمان داخل ایران: سوال من در باره دفاع مشروط یا مشروع از فرد یا جامعه ای است که مورد حمله قرار گرفته است؟ Moji interjected that this sort of honest questioning of each other (between the people of Iran and Americans) is exactly why the Iranian Nonviolence room exists. مجتبی گفت که این نوع پرسش های صادقانه از یکدیگر (بین مردم ایران و آمریکا) دقیقاً کی از دلایل اصلی وجود اتاق خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی است.
A- By Will: Everyone acts on a spectrum or range of violence and nonviolence. I strive for nonviolence. But if my child were in danger, I would not hesitate to do violence to protect him or her. So, there are times when we cannot make ourselves act nonviolently. But, we can strive to be nonviolent. ج- توسط ویل: هر فردی بر روی یک طیف از خشونت تا خشونت پرهیزی عمل می کند. من برای خشونت پرهیزی تلاش می کنم. اما اگر فرزندم در خطر باشد, از اعمال خشونت برای محافظت از او دریغ نمی‌کنم. بنابراین، مواقعی پیش می‌آید که نمی‌توانیم خودمان را مجبور کنیم که خشونت پرهیزانه رفتار کنیم. اما، میتوانیم در این جهت بهترین تلاش مان را انجام دهیم
A- By Moji: Conditional self-defense is doing only what is necessary to make yourself, your family, or community safe. It is not going on to use additional violence or aggression, going on offense, or seeking revenge. Conditional self-defense is an inseparable part of nonviolent resistance. ج- توسط مجتبی: دفاع مشروط (در تمایز با دفاع مشروع) انجام کارهایی است که فقط برای ایمن کردن خود فرد, خانواده, و یا جامعه ضروری و لازم است. در دفاع مشروط خشونت, وحشیگری, حمله و یا انتقام جویی جایی ندارد, و این نوع دفاع از خود بخش جدایی ناپذیری از مقاومت خشونت پرهیز است
On that note, final thanks were given, and the meeting was closed by Moji in the hope that the people of Iran soon find life with dignity, safety, and peace. در همین راستا نهایت تشکر و قدردانی به عمل آمد و جلسه توسط مجتبی خاتمه یافت, با ابراز این امید که مردم ایران به زودی زندگی با عزت، امنیت و آرامش را پیدا کنند
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
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Session (11) -- Sunday, March 26, 2023
نشست (11) -- یکشنبه 6 فروردین 1402
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
ZOOM // زوم
Guests This Week: Nonviolence of Martin Luther King (Part 2), With Mark Klym, Co-Founder of Phoenix Peace Builders and Tahnee Kirk, Co-Coordinator of Arizona Poor People's Campaign (AZ--PPC) // TOPIC: An Introduction to AZ--PPC, followed by an Overview of the Six Steps of Kingian Nonviolence, as a road map for peace and justice in the external world and also for inner peace.
مهمانان این هفته: مارک کلیم, بنیانگذار صلحسازان فینیکس و تانی کرک, یکی از مدیران "کمپین مردم فقیر" شعبه ایالت آریزونا //// موضوع اتاق: معرفی "کمپین مردم فقیر" و بخش دوم خشونت پرهیزی مارتین لوتر کینگ
KEY POINTS of the meeting
نکات کلیدی جلسه
ترانه ی پر قدرت و الهام بخش "بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند" (بر اساس شعر معروف سعدی) پخش شد. کلیپ را در اینجا ببینید
Powerful inspirational music and song (based on a famous poem by Sa'di) was played. See this clip--with English subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
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سرود غرور انگیز خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی: "تفنگت را زمین بگذار" برای آغاز رسمی اتاق پخش شد. این لینک را ببینید
The proud anthem of Iranian Nonviolence: “Lay Down Your Rifle” was played to start the room officially. See this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Different participants made these main points:
نکات اصلی مورد اشاره شرکت کنندگان جلسه
Moji wished everyone a happy Iranian new year and welcomed all the attendees as well as our guests, Tahnee Kirk and Mark Klym of Phoenix Peace Builders, in Arizona. Tahnee is the co-coordinator of the Arizona chapter of the Poor People’s Campaign.
مجتبی سال نو را به همه تبریک گفت, به همه حاضران و همچنین مهمانان اتاق, مارک کلیم و تانی کرک--توصیف در بالا
Tahnee Kirk's Talk About the Poor People’s Campaign (PPC)
سخنان خانم "تانی کرک" در مورد کمپین مردم فقیر -- ک م ف
Tahnee said that the PPC was started in 1967 by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A large march on Washington DC was planned to launch the campaign. But, Dr. King was assassinated a month before the march was to occur. His wife, Coretta Scott King, led the march in Dr. King’s place in 1968. Marchers stayed in Washington DC for about two months. That was the end of the short life of the original PPC.
خانم تانی کرک گفت که کمپین مردم فقیر (ک م ف) در سال 1967 توسط دکتر مارتین لوتر کینگ آغاز شد. یک راهپیمایی بزرگ در واشنگتن (پایتخت آمریکا) برای راه اندازی این کمپین برنامه ریزی شده بود. اما دکتر کینگ یک ماه قبل از برگزاری راهپیمایی ترور شد. همسر داغدار او، کورتا اسکات کینگ، در سال 1968 راهپیمایی را به جای دکتر کینگ رهبری کرد. راهپیمایان حدود دو ماه در واشنگتن دی سی ماندند؛ و این پایان عمر کوتاه ک م ف اصلی بود
In 2018, on the 50th anniversary of the original PPC march, the Poor People’s Campaign was revived. The new PPC sought a “moral revival” and was led by Reverend William Barber in North Carolina, and Reverend Liz Theoharris from the Cairo Center in New York. At this point in time, the PPC is present and active in 47 states of the U.S.
در سال 2018، در پنجاهمین سالگرد راهپیمایی اولیه, کمپین مردم فقیر (ک م ف) احیا شد, که همچنان به دنبال "احیای اخلاقی" بود -- و توسط کشیش ویلیام باربر در کارولینای شمالی (و کشیش لیز تئوهاریس از مرکز کایرو در نیویورک) رهبری شد. در این مقطع زمانی، ک م ف در 47 ایالت ایالات متحده حضور دارد و فعال است
In 2021 there was a virtual gathering, followed by two in-person gatherings one in 2022 and the next one in 2023. These large meetings are always in June to honor the original PPC. The organization works to address five interlocking injustices, which include: 1. Poverty, 2. Racism, 3. Devastation of the Environment, 4. The Unending War Economy, and 5. Religious Nationalism--which in contemporary America has become violent and neo-fascist. The PPC sees all these injustices as interconnected. So, no one injustice is prioritized over the others. They all must be addressed. Those in the PPC believe that “when we lift from the bottom, everybody rises.”
در سال 2021 گردهمایی مجازی کمپین مردم فقیر برگزار شد و پس از آن دو گردهمایی حضوری یکی در سال 2022 , و دیگری قرار است در سال 2023 برگزار شود. این جلسات بزرگ همیشه در ماه ژوئن برای بزرگداشت کمپین اصلی برگزار می شود. کمپین جدید برای رسیدگی به پنج بیعدالتی درهم تنیده تلاش می کند. که عبارتند از: 1. فقر، 2. نژادپرستی، 3. ویران کردن محیط زیست، 4. اقتصاد مبتنی بر جنگ بی پایان، و 5. ناسیونالیسم مذهبی -- که در آمریکای معاصر به خشونت و نئو فاشیسم تبدیل شده است. ک م ف همه این بیعدالتی ها را به هم مرتبط می بیند, که هیچیک بر دیگران اولویت ندارد, و باید به همه آنها رسیدگی شود. این کمپین معتقد است که وقتی جامعه از پایین تعالی و رشد می کند, همه ارتقا پیدا می کنند
کارا بیسل (یک مهمان آینده اتاق) اظهار داشت که نژادپرستی در سخنرانی دکتر کینگ با عنوان "من یک رویا دارم" پوشش داده شده است. او همچنین به ماتریالیسم اشاره کرد. تانی قبول کرد و گفت که دکتر کینگ در مورد سرمایه داری به عنوان یکی از شرارت هایی که به مردم فقیر آسیب می رساند بسیار صحبت کرده است. با این حال، ک م ف جدید رویکردی کمی متفاوت در پیش گرفته است. ما بر فقر و اقتصاد جنگی تمرکز می کنیم که به یکی از اجزای اصلی نظام سرمایه داری در آمریکا تبدیل شده است
The Six Steps of the Kingian Nonviolence
شش قدم (یا مراحل اجرایی) خشونت پرهیزی مکتب مارتین لوتر کینگ
Mark greeted everyone and said he was glad to see Americans and Iranians together again. He reiterated that, like Sadi’s message of "us being limbs of one body," Dr. King spoke of us all being “one People,” a single tapestry with all of us woven together.
مارک از همه احوالپرسی کرد و گفت از اینکه دوباره آمریکایی ها و ایرانی ها را در کنار هم می بینم خوشحالم. او تکرار کرد که مانند پیام سعدی مبنی بر «ما اعضای یک بدن هستیم» دکتر کینگ از همه ما به عنوان «یک قوم» صحبت کرد، یک فرش چهل تکه واحد که همه با هم بافته شده‌ایم
Mark added that the Arizona PPC and the Phoenix Peace Builders work together and support each other’s events. There will be a PPC gathering in Phoenix on April 15, 2023, at 2 p.m.
مارک اضافه کرد که صلحسازان آریزونا و ک م ف همکاری و از رویدادهای یکدیگر حمایت می کنند. یک گردهمایی مشترک در 15 آوریل 2023، ساعت 2 بعد از ظهر در شهر فینیکس برگزار خواهد شد
Mark presented the six principles of Kingian Nonviolence last week; principles that are the “moral foundation” of Kingian nonviolence. This week is the turn of the six STEPS (or actions) of Kingian Nonviolence. These six steps describe how to apply the principles in practice.
مارک هفته گذشته شش اصل خشونت پرهیزی مکتب مارتین لوتر کینگ را در اتاق ما ارائه کرد. اصولی که «بنیان اخلاقی» این نحله فکری و عملی را تشکیل می دهد, و این هفته نوبت شش قدم (یا مرحله عملی) است. این شش قدم نحوه به کارگیری اصول را در عمل شرح می دهد
First Step: GATHERING INFORMATION
قدم (یا مرحله) اول: جمع آوری اطلاعات
Moji emphasized the importance of “real information” versus fake information or propaganda. Mark said “we must know about both” so that we know what is true and what must be corrected. We also must learn about the history and background of conflicts.
مجتبی بر اهمیت «اطلاعات واقعی» در مقابل اطلاعات جعلی یا تبلیغات تأکید گذاشت. مارک گفت: «ما باید در مورد هر دو بدانیم» تا بدانیم چه چیزی درست است و چه چیزی باید اصلاح شود. ما همچنین باید در مورد تاریخچه و پیشینه درگیری ها تحقیق کنیم
An example from the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s: Dr. Lafayette, a co-worker of Dr. King’s, was a member of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). He was told white people were too mean and black people too afraid to change the voting injustice in Selma. Rather than accepting what he was told, he went to the library to research the situation. To understand the local power structure, Dr. Lafayette read the newsletters of a white, racist group. He also read about potential allies, to know who and how to educate the black voters.
نمونه ای از جنبش حقوق مدنی در دهه های 1950 و 60: دکتر لافایت، یکی از همکاران دکتر کینگ، عضو "کمیته هماهنگ کننده مقاومت خشونت پرهیز دانشجویی" بود. به او گفته شد که سفیدپوستان بیش از حد خبیث هستند و بنابراین سیاه‌پوستان میترسند از مشارکت در جنبش ایجاد تغییر در بیعدالتی های انتخاباتی در شهر سلمای ایالت آلاباما. او به جای قبول بدون شناخت آنچه شنیده بود، به کتابخانه رفت تا در مورد این وضعیت تحقیق کند. برای درک ساختار قدرت محلی، دکتر لافایت خبرنامه های یک گروه نژادپرست سفیدپوست را خواند. او به همچنین درباره متحدان بالقوه مطالعه کرد تا بداند چه کسانی حامی جنبش خواهند بود و چگونه باید رای دهندگان سیاه پوست را آموزش داد
Second Step: EDUCATION
قدم دوم: آموزش
Dr. Lafayette said: “Put your information in formation, in marching order.” Moji said: “Organize your information to be effective” in educating those working for justice and meaningful change. Mark emphasized that it is important to frame the issues properly and in an understandable manner. Look for existing potential leaders in the movement and TRAIN them. They can and will become capable of training others.
دکتر لافایت گفت: "اطلاعات خود را جوری مرتب کنید که برای کمک به غنای حرکت آماده باشد." مجتبی گفت: این یعنی «اطلاعات خود را سازماندهی کنید تا در آموزش کسانی که برای عدالت و تغییر معنادار تلاش می کنند مؤثر باشد». مارک تأکید کرد که مهم است مسائل را به درستی و به شیوه ای قابل درک چارچوب بندی کنیم. به دنبال شناسایی رهبران بالقوه موجود در جنبش باشید و آنها را آموزش دهید. آنها می توانند و قادر خواهند بود که بعدا دیگران را آموزش دهند
An example from Mark’s personal experience, while promoting treatment of children for their traumas: We knew children are traumatized by divorce, alcohol use, and bad behavior of adults, and by violence. Childhood trauma can cause illness in adulthood. We told doctors to be aware of and deal with the past (childhood) traumas of their adult patients, as well as their present physical symptoms. The doctors laughed. But experts we brought in trained the doctors, who then came to understand what we were talking about, so they expanded their treatment regimes, and became more effective doctors. Education is critical. The doctors we trained became trainers of other doctors.
مثالی از تجربه شخصی مارک، در حین تلاش هایش برای ترویج نیاز کادر درمانی به توجه کردن به آسیب‌های روانی کودکان: ما می‌دانستیم که کودکان از طلاق، مصرف الکل, و رفتار بد بزرگسالان, و البته از خشونت آسیب می‌بینند, و اینکه ترومای دوران کودکی می تواند باعث بیماری جسمی در بزرگسالی شود. ما به پزشکان گفتیم که باید نسبت به آسیب های گذشته (کودکی) بیماران بزرگسال خود (و در نتیجه علائم روان-تنی آنها) حساس باشند و سعی در معالجه اینگونه عارضه ها هم داشته باشند. دکترها به ما خندیدند. اما کارشناسانی که آوردیم، این پزشکان را آموزش دادند، و در نتیجه آنها نحوه درمانگری خود را گسترش دادند، و بنابراین پزشکان بهتری شدند. آموزش بسیار مهم است. پزشکانی که ما آموزش دادیم مربی سایر پزشکان شدند
Third Step: PERSONAL COMMITMENT
قدم سوم: تعهد شخصی
This step was originally called “self-purification” by Dr. King, a Baptist minister. But that was considered too religious for the federal government's rules. So, this step was re-named as "personal commitment."
این مرحله در ابتدا توسط دکتر کینگ (که یک کشیش باپتیست بود) "پاکسازی نفس" نامیده شد. اما این نامگذاری از دید قوانین سکولار دولت فدرال بیش از حد مذهبی ارزیابی شد. بنابراین، این قدم را به "تعهد شخصی" تغییر عنوان دادند
A sustained campaign to change an injustice can take a long time. An example was the Montgomery bus boycott, which lasted a year. Also, peace and nonviolence activists can face risks, danger, and time away from family. An activist must assess how much risk they are prepared to take, and how much they are willing to give, in terms of time, commitment, money, etc. The hardest part is self-purification. We must remove the violence from our own hearts as Gandhi admonished us to do.
یک کمپین پایدار برای تغییر بیعدالتی می تواند زمان زیادی طول بکشد. نمونه آن تحریم اتوبوس شهر مونتگامری ایالت آلاباما بود که یک سال به طول انجامید. به همچنین، فعالان صلح و خشونت پرهیزی می توانند با ریسک ها, خطرات واقعی, و دوری از خانواده مواجه شوند. یک فعال باید ارزیابی کند که تا چه حد ریسک پذیر است, و چقدر حاضر است که از نظر زمان، تعهد، پول و غیره هزینه کند. اما سخت ترین بخش، تطهیر نفس است, همانطور که گاندی توصیه اکید کرد که باید خشونت را از قلب خود حذف کنیم
Fourth Step: NEGOTIATION
قدم چهارم: مذاکره
The goal is not to vanquish those who are opposed to you, but instead a negotiated win-win situation, in which the needs of all sides of the conflict are met. If one side ends up feeling like they lost everything, the conflict is NOT over. It will rise up again.
هدف مغلوب کردن کامل مخالفان نیست, بلکه در عوض ایجاد یک شرایط برد-برد از طریق مذاکره است, جوری که نیازهای همه طرف های درگیری برآورده شود. اگر یک طرف احساس کند همه چیز را از دست داده، منازعه تمام نشده است, زیرا بدون شک دوباره آتش آن شعله ور خواهد شد
Another important characteristic of the negotiation step is “power equality.” If one side is treated as weak, the side that has superior power may not feel compelled to listen or ultimately change its violent behavior. We must be aware of the power balance by looking for trouble signs, or red flags.
یکی دیگر از ویژگی های مهم مرحله مذاکره «تعادل نیرو" است. اگر با یک طرف به عنوان ضعیف برخورد شود، طرفی که قدرت برتر دارد ممکن است احساس کند که مجبور به گوش دادن و یا در نهایت تغییر رفتار خشونت آمیز خود نیست. ما باید با جستجوی علائم مشکل یا پرچم های قرمز, نسبت به وضعیت تعادل قدرت حساس و آگاه باشیم
An example is the work done to reduce police violence toward the Black Lives Matter campaign. The police made promises to change, but in the end no police were prosecuted or held accountable in any way. That leads us to the next step, which is when negotiations have failed.
یک مثال, تلاش های انجام شده است, برای کاهش خشونت پلیس نسبت به کمپین "زندگی سیاهان هم مهم است." پلیس وعده هایی برای تغییر داد، اما در نهایت هیچ پلیسی تحت تعقیب قرار نگرفت و به هیچ وجه پاسخگویی واقعی وجود نداشت. چنین شرایطی ما را به مرحله بعدی می رساند، یعنی زمانی که مذاکرات شکست خورده است
Fifth Step: DIRECT NONVIOLENT ACTION
مرحله پنجم: کنشگری خشونت پرهیز چهره به چهره, رک و بدون تعارف
Dr. King talked openly about various injustices, so that lots of people would hear about and understand what was happening. An example is the marches organized after George Floyd was murdered by a white police officer. Many allies acted, nonviolently marching in the streets and holding demonstrations. This led to the changing of some laws and procedures. So now, social workers rather than armed police are called to deal with many situations.
دکتر کینگ آشکارا در مورد بیعدالتی های مختلف صحبت می کرد، تا آنکه بسیاری از مردم از آنچه اتفاق می افتد آگاه شوند و وقت را درک کنند. نمونه این قدم راهپیمایی های گستره ای است که پس از کشته شدن جورج فلوید توسط یک افسر پلیس سفیدپوست برگزار شد. بسیاری از متحدان جنبش وارد عمل شدند و بدون هیچ خشونتی در خیابان های شهرهای بسیاری راهپیمایی و تظاهرات برگزار کردند, که این مبارزات منجر به تغییر برخی قوانین و رویه ها شد. بنابراین اکنون، در بسیاری از موقعیت های حتی خطرناک مددکاران اجتماعی به جای پلیس مسلح فرستاده می شوند
Sixth Step: RECONCILIATION
قدم ششم: آشتی
The goal is to eventually reconcile differences, not to overpower the other side, but instead to win them over. We try to create reconciliation in a way that meets the essential needs of all sides of the conflict.
هدف این است که در نهایت اختلافات را حل کنیم, نه اینکه بر طرف مقابل غلبه کرده, بلکه در عوض دل آنها را به دست آوریم. ما سعی می کنیم آشتی را به گونه ای ایجاد کنیم که نیازهای اساسی همه طرف های درگیری برآورده شود
An example was the sit-ins when they were trying to integrate public lunchrooms in Nashville, Tennessee. Dr. King did not let just one or two restaurants change and serve black people. He waited until they all changed, so no restaurant owner could be attacked by the others. And when the lunchrooms (restaurants) were integrated, there was no open celebration or gloating. It was a quiet victory so as to not make restaurant owners and white customers feel like losers.
به عنوان مثال، تحصن‌های متعددی بود که در تلاش برای محو تبعیض نژادی در غذاخوری های عمومی در شهر نشویل ایالت تنسی سازماندهی شد. دکتر کینگ نگذاشت که فقط یک یا دو رستوران متحول شوند و به سیاه پوستان سرویس دهند. او منتظر ماند تا همه آنها تغییر کنند، تا آنکه هیچ صاحب رستورانی مورد حمله همقطاران دیگرش قرار نگیرد. و زمانی که ناهارخوری ها (رستوران ها) یکپارچه شدند، جشن و شادی علنی برگزار نشد. این پیروزی بی سر و صدا بود تا باعث نشود که صاحبان رستوران ها و مشتریان سفیدپوست احساس باخت کنند
Mark emphasized that all these steps are often incomplete. You frequently may have to go back to an earlier step to do more education or more negotiation. It is rarely “won and done.” Work at various steps is often done concurrently, not sequentially.
مارک تأکید کرد که شش قدم مکتب خشونت پرهیزی مارتین لوتر کینگ لزوما کامل نیستند, و در حقیقت در اغلب موارد ممکن است مجبور شوید برای انجام آموزش و یا مذاکره بیشتر به مرحله قبلی برگردید. به ندرت "برنده شدیم و تمام" حاصل میشود, و کار بر روی قدم های ششگانه اغلب به طور همزمان و نه یکی پس از دیگری انجام می شود
DISCUSSION
بحث
James said that the presentation today was very helpful because it gave us concrete ideas about how to effectively use nonviolence. The part about balancing power on all sides of the conflict and working for a win-win solution caught my attention. My own initial reaction to violence or discrimination is often to want to shift the power, so I have control over the other person. It was good to be reminded that conflict is never truly over unless all sides feel empowered and their needs are met.
James said that the presentation today was very helpful because it gave us concrete ideas about how to effectively use nonviolence. The part about balancing power on all sides of the conflict and working for a win-win solution caught my attention. My own initial reaction to violence or discrimination is often to want to shift the power, so I have control over the other person. It was good to be reminded that conflict is never truly over unless all sides feel empowered and their needs are met.
جیمز گفت که برنامه امروز بسیار مفید بود، زیرا به ما ایده‌های مشخصی در مورد چگونگی استفاده مؤثر از خشونت پرهیزی ارائه کرد, و بخش مربوط به توازن قدرت میان همه طرف های درگیری و تلاش برای رسیدن به راه حل برد-برد توجه ویژه من را به خود جلب کرد. واکنش اولیه خود من به خشونت یا تبعیض اغلب این است که می خواهم موازنه قدرت را تغییر دهم, تا آنکه من بر طرف مقابل کنترل پیدا کنم. در صحبت امروز این یادآوری خیلی مفید بود که درگیری هرگز واقعاً تمام نمی شود مگر اینکه همه طرف ها احساس قدرتمندی کنند و نیازهای همه برآورده شود
Moji solicited the thoughts of the learned man from inside Iran. In response Mr. Naser Alijani (who will have his own segment in the room in future weeks) greeted all and said he was late due to being in another nonviolence room with activists celebrating the Iranian New Year. Moji said that there are multiple nonviolence rooms on Clubhouse, which is good for expanding the discourse.
مجتبی خواستار شنیدن دیدگاه های مرد فرهیخته داخل ایران شد, و در پاسخ، آقای ناصر علیجانی (که در هفته‌های آینده بخش مخصوص به خود را در اتاق خواهند داشت) ضمن چاق سلامتی با اتاق گفت که به دلیل حضور در یکی دیگر از اتاق‌های خشونت‌پرهیزی در کلاب هاوس (برای جشن سال نو) دیر به نشست ما پیوسته است. و مجتبی گفت که وجود چندین اتاق در باره خشونت پرهیزی برای گسترش این گفتمان مفید است
Mark applauded Mr. Alijani for celebrating nonviolence, which speaks to the "beloved community" principle, and meets the needs of everybody, even one's opponents--not demonizing the other.
مارک آقای علیجانی را به خاطر خشونت پرهیزی ایشان ستود و گفت که که این نگرش و رفتار با اصل "جامعه محبوب" تطابق دارد زیرا نیازهای همه، حتی مخالفان را برآورده، و از "دیگری" هیولاسازی نمی کند
Moji said that through nonviolence everybody wins so we can come to a real and durable solution.
مجتبی گفت که از طریق خشونت پرهیزی همه برنده می شوند و یک راه حل واقعی و با دوام میرسیم
Cara (who was wearing a beautiful Palestinian scarf, a gift from a Palestinian family, said she hopes that the kind of reconciliation we have been talking about will occur in Palestine. And she spoke of a book club in which she participates, in which a book on peace and nonviolence is being studied, a chapter of which was written by a man in prison. He wrote that the idea of reconciliation is to have everyone as equals, even in extreme situations. The book speaks of a program that brings together the family of someone who has been killed and the person in prison who did the killing. The killer is treated as a “member of the family,” an equal.
کارا (که یک روسری زیبای فلسطینی--هدیه ای از یک خانواده فلسطینی--را به دور گردن داشت، گفت که امیدوار است آن نوع آشتی ای که ما در مورد آن صحبت می کنیم در فلسطین رخ دهد. و او از یک گروه کتاب خوانی که در آن شرکت دارد صحبت کرد، که در حال مطالعه یک کتاب در باره صلح و پرهیز از خشونت است, و فصلی از کتاب توسط مردی زندانی نوشته شده, که او نوشته "گوهر آشتی واقعی این است که همه برابر باشیم، حتی در شرایط وحشتناک سخت. کتاب از برنامه ای صحبت می کند که همه را گرد هم می آورد, خانواده مقتول و فرد زندانی ای که قتل را انجام داده است
Amy spoke of the same book club as Cara. In her experience, people working on reconciliation often feel so disempowered that they give up. She solicited Mark’s reactions.
امی از همان باشگاه کتابخوانی کارا صحبت کرد. در تجربه او، خیلی از افرادی که برای برقراری واقعی صلح و آشتی تلاش می کنند، به دلیل سختی کار اغلب آنقدر بهشان احساس ناتوانی دست میدهد که تسلیم شده و تلاش را رها میکنند. او نظر مارک را در این باره پرسید
Mark offered an example: There was a conflict at Standing Rock, the Lakota Sioux reservation. There was a standoff between the government (FBI) and the indigenous native people. Both sides were armed. Dr. Lafayette was there. The nonviolence leader acted to boost morale and worked with all sides involved.
مارک مثالی ارائه کرد: یک درگیری جدی در قیام برای احقاق حقوق بومیان امریکا در "استندینگ راک" (در منطقه ویژه قوم "لاکوتا سو") شکل گرفت, و بین دولت فدرال امریکا (اف بی آی) و مردم بومی این اختلاف به یک بن بست خطرناک کشیده شد. هر دو طرف مسلح بودند. دکتر لافایت آنجا بود, و به عنوان یک رهبر مبارزه خشونت پرهیز, او برای تقویت روحیه اخلاقی و در جهت جلب همکاری همه طرف های درگیر اقدام کرد
Mark added that Dr. Lafayette had an inner peace and strength with an impish sparkle in his eyes, a little light of morality. He was respected by both the government police forces and the indigenous native leaders. To “equalize power” both sides aimed guns at each other. It was dangerous going back and forth. But Dr. Lafayette had the power of moral conviction and worked genuinely to meet the needs of both sides.
مارک اضافه کرد که دکتر لافایت (که آرامش و قدرتی درونی داشت -- با انعکاسی از نور اخلاق مداری در چشمانش) مورد احترام هم نیروهای پلیس دولتی و هم رهبران بومی بود. برای "برابر کردن قدرت" هر دو طرف اسلحه هایشان را به سمت یکدیگر نشانه گرفتند, و این کش و واکش خطرناک بوجود آورده بود. اما دکتر لافایت (برخوردار از قدرت ایمان انسانی-اخلاقی) صادقانه برای رفع نیازهای هر دو طرف منازعه تلاش کرد
Another example from Gandhi and Dr. King: They pointed out that the military train and practice violence (war fighting) at great length. The nonviolence activists, to be effective, must also train themselves a lot. They must develop inner strength in order to gain allies and behave effectively in nonviolent ways. These skills must be learned and practiced.
یک مثال دیگر--از گاندی و دکتر کینگ که به این نکته اشاره کردند که ارتش آموزش و تمرین طولانی مدت برای اعمال خشونت (و حتی جنگ) دارد. فعالان خشونت‌پرهیز نیز برای موثر بودن, باید خود را بسیار آموزش داده, و باید قدرت درونی خود را (برای به دست آوردن متحدان بیشتر و تداوم رفتارهای مؤثر با شیوه های خشونت پرهیز) توسعه دهند؛ و این مهارت ها را باید آموخت و تمرین کرد
Then Mark added: Finally, in my own family, when there is a problem, my goal is not to impose my power onto the others. While sharing your own needs, you need to use the power of love, and listen to what the needs of the other people are; and of course that is not always easy. We know Dr. King was violently assassinated. But the peace and nonviolence movements go on. The Poor People’s Campaign goes on, Iranian Nonviolence goes on, New Hampshire Peace Action, which we’ll hear about next week, goes on.
سپس مارک اضافه کرد: در نهایت در خانواده خودم وقتی مشکلی پیش می آید، هدف من این نیست که قدرتم را به دیگران تحمیل کنم. در حین اینکه میگویم نیازهایم چیست، از قدرت محبت عشق استفاده میکنم و به نیازهای همسرم و دیگر توجه میکنم--و البته این همیشه آسان نیست. ما می دانیم که دکتر کینگ با خشونت ترور شد. اما جنبش های صلح و خشونت پرهیزی ادامه دارد. کمپین مردم فقیر ادامه دارد، خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی ادامه دارد, و آشتی در عمل شعبه ایالت نیوهمشایر، که هفته آینده درباره آن بیشتر خواهیم شنید، ادامه دارد
Also, Mark wanted to talk of the importance of morale, the use of songs, poems, and other morale boosters, like Moji uses each week in this room. When many nonviolence activists were in jail, they sang songs to lift and maintain morale, joyous songs. Jailers mistakenly thought they were hearing radio music. Singing can be a way to transmit the essence and power of nonviolence.
به علاوه, مارک در مورد اهمیت ترغیب و روحیه سازی، استفاده از آهنگ‌ها، شعرها, و دیگر عوامل هنری-فرهنگی تقویت‌کننده روحیه صحبت کرد, مانند استفاده مجتبی از سرود های تشویق خشونت پرهیزی در هر هفته در همین اتاق. زمانی که بسیاری از فعالان خشونت‌پرهیز در زندان بودند، آهنگ‌هایی را برای ترغیب و حفظ روحیه مبارزه می‌خواندند، از جمله آهنگ‌های شاد. زندانبانان به اشتباه فکر می کردند که موسیقی رادیویی را می شنوند. آواز می تواند راهی برای انتقال جوهره و قدرت خشونت پرهیزی باشد
Q- Cara asked Mark about the group On Earth Peace (OEP), which offers training on nonviolence in Arizona.
س- کارا از مارک در مورد گروه "صلح در تمام زمین" , که در ایالت آریزونا آموزش هایی را در مورد خشونت پرهیزی ارائه می دهد، پرسید
A- By Mark: OEP (a partner with Phoenix Peace Builders) has Kingian Nonviolence Network meetings every two weeks, and every two months the two groups do a two-hour joint presentation on Kingian Nonviolence. Mark and a fellow activist, who have received additional university training on Kingian nonviolence, teach some of those sessions. Also, OEP offers many different training opportunities, even to international students. They also worked in Chicago in the 1960s and 70s to transform housing rights.
ج- توسط مارک: سازمان "صلح در تمام زمین" (همکار صلحسازان فینیکس) هر دو هفته یک بار جلسات "شبکه خشونت پرهیزی مارتین لوتر کینگی" برگزار می کند و هر دو ماه یکبار دو گروه یک برنامه مشترک دو ساعته در همین مورد انجام می دهند. مارک و یکی از فعالان همکارش (که هر دو, دوره های آموزشی دانشگاهی پیشرفته در این گونه خشونت پرهیزی گذارنده اند) برخی از این جلسات آموزشی را تدریس می کنند, و به همچنین، فرصت های آموزشی گوناگونی را حتی به دانشجویان بین المللی ارائه می دهند؛ و علاوه بر این, "خشونت پرهیزان کینگی" در دهه های 1960 و 70 (در شیکاگو) برای تغییر دادن سیاست های تبعیضی در حقوق مسکن فعالیت های گسترده داشتند
Mr. Alijani (from inside Iran) said that he would like to have future meetings to focus more on the reasons and causes of violence. Violence exists on a spectrum of the personal to the genocidal, so we need to understand the many reasons for the occurrence of violence and nonviolence, in their social, economic, sociological, political, and cultural frameworks. We can understand the occurrence of violence as a consequence of improper responses to inequities.
آقای علیجانی از داخل ایران گفت که مایل است در آینده جلساتی برای تمرکز بیشتر بر دلایل و علل خشونت داشته باشیم. خشونت در طیفی از شخصی تا نسل کشی وجود دارد، بنابراین ما باید دلایل متعدد وقوع خشونت و خشونت پرهیزی را در چارچوب های اجتماعی، اقتصادی، جامعه شناختی، سیاسی و فرهنگی عمیقا درک کنیم. ما میتوانیم وقوع خشونت را در نتیجه واکنش‌های نادرست به نابرابری‌ها ارزیابی کنیم
Mr. Alijani added: We need to consider that there are many causes of violence. There are physiological causes for some violence, such as bodily problems like high blood pressure or stroke. We cannot condone the violence, but we can understand it. Other causes of violence often go back to psychological factors, like mental illness as its primary factor. Another kind of violence is that which is inflicted on the people by their leaders and rulers.
آقای علیجانی افزود: ما باید در نظر داشته باشیم که خشونت دلایل زیادی دارد. دلایل فیزیولوژیکی برای بروز برخی از خشونت ها وجود دارد , مانند فشار خون بالا یا سکته مغزی. ما نمی توانیم خشونت را بپذیریم، اما می توانیم آن را درک کنیم. علل دیگر خشونت ممکن است به عوامل روانشناختی بازگردد، مانند بیماری روانی--که اغلب عامل اصلی است. و البته نوع دیگر خشونت, آن خشونتی است که از سوی رهبران و حاکمان بر مردم تحمیل می شود
The learned Mr. Naser Alijani clearly wants, in future weeks, to pay deeper attention to the basic causes of violence. So, Moji recommended that he make recordings of his views from inside Iran, which can then be played and translated during future meetings of the room. Mr. Alijani welcomed the opportunity and said he will try to make such contributions, so we can better understand why violence happens in Iran, and also consider the “structural solutions” for it.
آقای ناصر علیجانی (همکار آگاه اتاق) مصرانه می خواهد در هفته های آینده توجه عمیق تری به علل اساسی وقوع خشونت داشته باشیم. بنابراین، مجتبی به او توصیه کرد که نظرات (داخل ایران) خود را ضبط کند تا در جلسات بعدی اتاق پخش و ترجمه شود. آقای علیجانی از این فرصت استقبال کرد و گفت که تلاش خواهد کرد تا چنین کاری را انجام دهد, تا آنکه بتوانیم بهتر درک کنیم که چرا خشونت (بویژه در ایران) رخ می دهد و همچنین "راه حل های ساختاری" را برای رفع آن در نظر بگیریم
Mark said that he looks forward to additional discussions on the matter of more deeply understanding the causes of violence and seeking structural solutions for it. Mr. Alijani and Mark exchanged thanks, and heart emojis.
مارک گفت که مشتاقانه منتظر بحث های بیشتر برای درک عمیق تر علل خشونت و جستجوی راه حل های ساختاری برای آن است. آقای علیجانی و مارک از هم تشکر کردند و ایموجی های قلبکی رد و بدل کردند
Cara said that the scope of this bilingual, international network (Iranian Nonviolence) is amazing, and contributes to helping peace happen in our world. Cara will make a presentation on Iranian Nonviolence in May.
کارا گفت که گستره این شبکه دوزبانه بین المللی (خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی) شگفت انگیز است و به تحقق صلح در جهان ما کمک می کند. این بانوی آمریکایی در ماه می به عنوان مهمان اتاق خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی سخنرانی خواهد کرد
An Iranian participant sent his thanks from Germany for the Iranian Nonviolence room, and said he looks forward to the next sessions.
یک شرکت‌کننده ایرانی از آلمان از اتاق خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی تشکر کرد و گفت که منتظر جلسات بعدی است
James reiterated that Iranian Nonviolence has been and is a wonderful, international gathering of peace lovers. We need to continue, listen to one another, and move toward peace. There was a flurry of hearts, peace signs, and thumbs up. Will and Amy will be the room's guest presenters next week.
جیمز بار دیگر تاکید کرد که اتاق خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی یک گردهمایی بین المللی دوستداران صلح بوده و هست. او گفت که ما باید این تلاش ها را ادامه داده, به حرف یکدیگر گوش دهیم, و به سمت صلح حرکت کنیم. موجی از قلب ها، نشانه های صلح و تایید و سپاس رد و بدل شد. ویل و امی مهمانان هفته آینده اتاق خواهند بود
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
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Session (10) -- Sunday, March 19, 2023
نشست (10) -- یکشنبه 28 اسفند 1401
LISTEN HERE IN CLUBHOUSE // اینجا بشنوید در کلاب هاوس
ZOOM // زوم
Guest This Week: Nonviolence of Martin Luther King (Part 1), With Mark Klym, Co-Founder of Phoenix Peace Builders // TOPIC: An overview of the six Principles of Kingian Nonviolence, as a foundation for peace and justice in the external world and also for inner peace.
مهمان این هفته: مارک کلیم, بنیانگذار صلحسازان فینیکس /// موضوع اتاق: بخش یکم خشونت پرهیزی مارتین لوتر کینگ
KEY POINTS of the meeting
نکات کلیدی جلسه
ترانه ی پر قدرت و الهام بخش "بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند" (بر اساس شعر معروف سعدی) به دلیل مشکلات فنی پخش نشد. کلیپ را در اینجا ببینید
Powerful inspirational music and song (based on a famous poem by Sa'di) was not played due to technical problems. See this clip--with English subtitles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
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سرود غرور انگیز خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی: "تفنگت را زمین بگذار" برای آغاز رسمی اتاق پخش شد. این لینک را ببینید
The proud anthem of Iranian Nonviolence: “Lay Down Your Rifle” was played to start the room officially. See this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Different participants made these main points:
نکات اصلی مورد اشاره شرکت کنندگان جلسه
Tomorrow, March 20, 2023, is the vernal equinox, the beginning of Spring, and the renewal of life, as well as the start of NOWRUZ--the Iranian New Year. After wishing everyone a Happy New Year, Moji welcomed all the attendees and the room's guest, Mark Klym, co-founder of Phoenix Peace Builders (PPB), who went on to present Part One of Kingian Nonviolence, the nonviolent philosophy (and practice) of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
فردا 29 اسفند 1392، آغاز بهار و تجدید حیات و نوروز، سال نوی ایرانی است. مجتبی آقامحمدی پس از تبریک و خوشامد گویی به همه شرکت کنندگان, مقدم مهمان اتاق، یعنی مارک کلیم را (که یکی از بنیانگذاران اصلی سازمان مدنی "صلحسازان فینیکس" -- که در این نشست بخش اول معرفی فلسفه و نحوه پیاده سازی خشونت پرهیزی مکتب مارتین لوتر کینگ را ارائه کرد) گرامی داشت
Mark greeted the attendees and introduced Phoenix Peace Builders (PPB) which is part of a larger organization, The Culture of Peace Alliance. Its mission is to help communities heal from generations of trauma, create positive change, from within our hearts and in our communities. PPB promotes the principles of Kingian Nonviolence and reconciliation. Reconciliation is focused on building a “beloved community” in which everyone can thrive through education and action. PPB wants to reduce violence and create more justice. We seek to create peace first in ourselves, then family, friends, and community. PPB is dedicated to Dr. King’s dream of a just and compassionate society, and along with education it has done “direct action” in the Arizona community with the Black Lives Matter campaign, which grew after the murder of a black man by the police. We worked with the Phoenix City Council to change laws. We also worked in Tucson to improve housing for the poor. Finally, we hold racial healing affinity groups to discuss injustice and how to make reparations to build a just community.
مارک به حاضران خوش آمد گفت و "صلحسازان فینیکس" را که بخشی از یک سازمان بزرگتر یعنی "اتحاد فرهنگ صلح" است معرفی کرد, که هدف آن کمک به جامعه جهت شفایابی نسل‌های متعدد آسیب دیدگان روحی و ایجاد تغییرات مثبت در درون قلب افراد و جامعه است--و اصول خشونت پرهیزی مکتب دکتر مارتین لوتر کینگ و آشتی سازی را ترویج می کند؛ که این آشتی بر ایجاد یک "جامعه محبوب" متمرکز است, و در آن همه افراد می توانند از طریق آموزش و عمل پیشرفت کنند. ما در این سازمان خواهان خشونت کمتر و عدالت بیشتر, و به دنبال نخست ایجاد صلح در درون فرد, و سپس در خانواده، دوستان و جامعه هستیم. اهداف سازمان ما به تحقق رویای دکتر کینگ برای رسیدن به یک جامعه پر عدل و عشق اختصاص داده شده است، و ما علاوه بر ایجاد دوره های متعدد آموزشی, مبارزات خشونت پرهیز "اقدام مستقیم" را در جامعه ایالت آریزونا انجام داده ایم, در همراهی با کمپین "زندگی سیاهان هم اهمیت دارد" که این جنبش پس از قتل یک مرد سیاهپوست توسط پلیس آمریکا رشد بسیار کرد. ما با شورای شهر فینیکس برای تغییر قوانین محلی همکاری کرده, و به همچنین در شهر توسان برای بهبود مسکن فقرا تلاش داشته ایم. و در خاتمه، سازمان ما مرتبا جلسات گروهی متعددی جهت کمک به حصول صلح و شفای بین نژادی (از جمله برای بحث پیرامون رفع بیعدالتی سیستمیک و نحوه پرداخت غرامت) با هدف ایجاد یک جامعه عادلانه برگزار می کند
It is easy for activists to become sad. Part of Kingian Nonviolence is to lift up our hearts and rejoice when we are struggling with heavy topics. Song helps us to overcome sadness. We must look at the history of nonviolence, in which at about 1100 AD, a Sultan was involved. A book and movie, The Sultan and the Saint, tells us about a true story of nonviolence from the Crusades. There was peace-building between a Sultan of Egypt and Saint Francis of Assisi. It was inspirational. Thus, Phoenix Peace Builders also works with religious groups to admit the past violence of Christianity and offer reparations.
فعالان خیرخواه طبیعتا براحتی میتوانند آزرده و نومید شوند, و بنابراین, بخشی از مبارزه خشونت پرهیز امیدوار نگاه داشتن جنبش است و اینکه سطح شادی در قلب خود را بالا ببریم, بویژه وقتی که با مشکلات بسیار سنگین دست و پنجه نرم می کنیم. آوازخوانی جمعی به ما کمک می کند تا بر علیه نومیدی و غم و اندوه فردی مان فائق آییم. ما باید به تاریخ مبارزات خشونت پرهیز با دقت نگاه کنیم, که مثلا (در حدود سال 1100 پس از میلاد) یک سلطان به آن پایبند بود. کتاب و فیلمی به نام "سلطان و قدیس" روایت یک داستان واقعی از خشونت پرهیزی در جنگ های صلیبی را به ما می گوید, و اینکه بین سلطان مسلمان مصر و قدیس فرانسیس مسیحی صلح ایجاد شد--و این عمیقا الهام بخش بود. بنابراین، ما در سازمان "صلحسازان فینیکس" با گروه‌های مذهبی برای تشویق آنان به اعتراف به خشونتگری گذشته مسیحیت و ارائه غرامت به قربانیان کار میکنیم
Talking on Iranian Nonviolence is consistent with PPB efforts and the work of Veterans for Peace. Dr. King learned from many “heroes of nonviolence” such as Mahatma Gandhi and a colleague of Gandhi, Abdul Ghaffar Khan, a Sunni Muslim. Khan declared himself a “secular Muslim” and promoted the nonviolent force of truth. Like Dr. King, Khan went to jail for the practice of nonviolence.
صحبت با "خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی" با تلاش های سازمان ما و کنشگری های "کهنه سربازان صلح طلب" کاملا سازگار است. دکتر کینگ از قهرمانان مبارزات خشونت پرهیز, از جمله گاندی و همکار مسلمان سنی اش عبدل غفارخان، درس های بسیار آموخت. غفارخان خود را علنا به عنوان یک «مسلمان سکولار» معرفی و نیروی خشونت پرهیز حقیقت را ترویج کرد--و مانند دکتر کینگ به دلیل کنشگری های خشونت پرهیز به زندان رفت
The Six Principles of Kingian Nonviolence
شش اصل خشونت پرهیزی مکتب مارتین لوتر کینگ
INTRODUCTION: These six principles are based, in part, on Dr. King’s essay: “My Pilgrimage to Nonviolence.” Indigenous people have explained the offensive nature of the word "pilgrim." So, a better term might be Journey to Nonviolence. We will also address Dr. King’s “Letter from the Birmingham Jail.” Peace-building in Kingian Nonviolence means “truth telling,” even hard truths, such as the genocide of indigenous people in America. Mark asked that people think about the ways the six principles of Kingian Nonviolence may or may not work in Iran’s current struggles.
مقدمه: این شش اصل تا حدی مبتنی بر این مقاله مارتین لوتر کینگ است: "زیارت خشونت پرهیزی من." البته, مردمان بومی امریکا ماهیت توهین آمیز کلمه "زائر" را توضیح داده اند. بنابراین، واژه سفر میتواند برای عنوان این مقاله بهتر باشد. ما به همچنین به "نامه ای از زندان بیرمنگام" دکتر کینگ خواهیم پرداخت. صلحسازی در مکتب خشونت پرهیزی مارتین لوتر کینگ به معنای "حقیقت گویی" بی پرده است -- حتی گفتن حقایق تلخ تاریخی, مثل نسل کشی مردمان بومی در قاره آمریکا. مارک از حاضران در اتاق خواست که به روش‌هایی در مبارزات کنونی ایرانیان بیندیشند که در آنها این اصول ششگانه ممکن است موثر باشد, یا نباشد
First Principle -- Nonviolence is a way of life for courageous people. This means that nonviolence is a positive force for confronting the forces of injustice, and using righteous indignation and the spiritual, emotional, and intellectual capabilities of people as a vital force for change and reconciliation. It is not for cowards. It is not easy to be nonviolent if someone is being aggressive and violent to you. You must be brave to act nonviolently. Also, nonviolence is active, not passive, not running away from a fight. It is standing firm for the truth, fighting for truth with peace, love, and compassion, which is more powerful than violence. For example, Dr. King’s home was bombed with his family inside. Black people began to riot in response. Dr. King stopped the riot and called for nonviolent singing of peace songs.
اصل اول -- خشونت پرهیزی یک روش زندگی برای افراد شجاع است. این بدان معناست که خشونت پرهیزی نیروی مثبتی برای مقابله با نیروهای خادم بیعدالتی است, و استفاده از خشم حق طلبانه و توانایی های روحی، عاطفی و فکری مردم به عنوان نیرو هایی حیاتی برای حصول تغییر و آشتی. خشونت پرهیزی مال ترسوها نیست. اگر کسی نسبت به شما پرخاشگر و خشن باشد، واکنش خشونت پرهیز نشان دادن ساده نیست. شما باید خیلی شجاع باشید تا بتوانید خشونت پرهیز عمل کنید. به همچنین، خشونت پرهیزی فعال است، نه منفعل, و فرار از تنش و دعوا نیست, بلکه برای حقیقت محکم ایستادن است, و مبارزه ای واقعی برای حصول حقیقت همراه با صلح، عشق و شفقت است, و بسی قدرتمندتر از سلطه و خشونت. به عنوان مثال، خانه دکتر مارتین لوتر کینگ (با خانواده اش در داخل) بمبگذاری شد. سیاه پوستان در پاسخ شروع به شورش کردند, ولی دکتر کینگ شورش را متوقف کرد و خواستار خواندن خشونت پرهیز آوازهای دست جمعی صلح شد
Second Principle -- The beloved community is the goal. Such a community does not seek to belittle or demonize the opponent. It realizes that after the conflict we will still want to live together in community. Dr. King was attacked while on stage, but he did not fight back, even though he was knocked down. Other people stopped the violence and Dr. King stood on the moral high ground.
اصل دوم -- ایجاد "جامعه محبوب" هدف نهایی است. چنین جامعه ای به دنبال تحقیر یا شیطان جلوه دادن حریف نیست, و متوجه این واقعیت است که پس از اتمام درگیری ما همچنان می خواهیم با هم و در همسایگی هم زندگی کنیم. دکتر کینگ یکبار در حالی که روی صحنه بود مورد حمله قرار گرفت، اما با وجود اینکه به زمین انداخته شده بود، مقابله به مثل نکرد. افراد دیگر خشونت را متوقف کردند و دکتر کینگ در جایگاه اخلاق متعالی ایستاد
Third Principle -- Attack the forces of evil, not the person committing the evil. It is a waste of energy to attack the person. They would become a martyr and could be replaced. Nonviolence seeks equity and reconciliation. In ten years of the civil rights movement, many laws were changed regarding segregation, busing, motel accommodations, voting, and housing.
اصل سوم - به نیروهای ایجاد کننده شر حمله کنید، نه به افرادی که مرتکب شر میشوند. حمله به شخص شرور اتلاف انرژی است, زیرا ممکن است که او را به یک "شهید" تبدیل کند, و به هر حال جای خالی چنین افرادی را دیگر خادمان نیروهای خشونتگر پر خواهند کرد. خشونت پرهیزی به دنبال برابری و آشتی است. در طول ده سال جنبش حقوق مدنی آمریکا، قوانین بسیاری تغییر یافت, مثلا در مورد جداسازی های نژادی، چگونگی استفاده سیاهان از اتوبوس و اقامت در هتل، رای دادن, و تبعیض در زمینه اجاره و خرید مسکن
Fourth Principle -- Accept suffering without retaliation, for the sake of the nonviolent movement to reach its goals. Gandhi said: “Rivers of blood may have to flow, but it will be ours.”
اصل چهارم - رنج را بدون انتقام گیری تحمل کنید, تا آنکه جنبش خشونت پرهیز به اهداف انسان ساز خود برسد. گاندی می‌گوید: ممکن است رودخانه‌هایی از خون جاری شوند، اما با خون ما
Fifth Principle -- Avoid internal as well as external violence. Dr. King said that he did not have time to hate. Agape love is unconditional love for all. George Wallace, a racist governor later apologized for his behaviors and worked with black and brown people.
اصل پنجم: از خشونت درونی و بیرونی اجتناب کنید. دکتر کینگ گفت که او برای نفرت وقت ندارد. عشق "آگاپه" عشق بی قید و شرط برای همه است. جورج والاس، فرماندار نژادپرست ایالت آلاباما, بعدها به خاطر رفتار خود عذرخواهی کرد و با افراد سیاه پوست و دیگر رنگین پوستان صمیمانه همکاری کرد
Sixth Principle -- The universe is on the side of justice. The arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice. That was part of his message of uplift: Do not lose faith in the nonviolent movement. Moji paraphrased this principle (in translation) by saying that what you are doing in love is the righteous cause, so the universe is on your side.
اصل ششم - جهان در سوی عدالت قرار دارد, نه در سوی بیعدالتی. قوس عالم بسیار طولانی است, اما به سوی عدالت خم می شود. این بخشی از پیام اعتلا بخش او بود: ایمان خود را به جنبش خشونت پرهیز از دست ندهید. مجتبی این اصل را اینگونه ترجمه کرد: آنچه شما با محبت انجام می دهید عمل صالح است، پس کائنات با شماست
Moji rejoiced and said to Mark that we have two love signs in the Clubhouse room from inside Iran, two red hearts, and that Amy and everybody in the Zoom room is also giving you hearts.
موجی خوشحالی خود و اتاق را منعکس کرد به مارک گفت که دو نفر از داخل ایران به سخنان او قلبک های قرمز رنگ عشق تقدیم کرده اند, و امی و همه کسانی هم که در اتاق زوم هستند روی تصویر هایشان علامت های قلب دیده میشود
Moji Mentioned that he will be traveling through Arizona and New Mexico in the second week of April, so he would love to give talks in Tucson, Albuquerque, and Santa Fe, on the subject of what is happening in Iran, and about the Iranian Nonviolence initiative. See the main page (its link is above) for more details.
مجتبی گفت که در هفته دوم ماه آوریل به آریزونا و نیومکزیکو سفر خواهد کرد، و در بعضی از شهرهای این دو ایالت در باره آنچه در ایران اتفاق می‌افتد (و در مورد پروژه خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی) سخنرانی هایی خواهد داشت, که برای اطلاع از جزئیات این فعالیت ها میتوانید به صفحه اصلی این سایت (لینک در بالا) مراجعه کنید
گفتگو / Discussion
Soliciting thoughts, feelings, or questions, Moji pointed out that this Iranian Nonviolence gathering is connecting, right now, peace activists who are collaborating in the resistance to militarism, drone warfare, and oppression, including lovers of peace and justice inside Iran, and in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and in New Hampshire, Maine, and Colorado, all in this room.
سپس, مجتبی از حاضران خواست که افکار، احساسات یا سؤالات خود را مطرح کنند و اشاره به این واقعیت زیبا کرد که «خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی» در همین نشست مجازی فعالان صلحی را (که برای مقاومت در برابر نظامی‌گری، جنگ پهبادی, و ظلم و ستم تلاش همکارانه میکنند) گرد هم آورده است؛ دوستداران صلح و عدالت در داخل ایران، در شهر های فینیکس و توسان ایالت آریزونا، در آلبوکرکی نیومکزیکو، و در ایالت های نیوهمشایر، مین، و کلرادو--همه در این اتاق
Q- A learned man in Iran greeted Mark and all the attendees, thanked him for his "extremely important" remarks, and said that often violence is regarded as a way of self-defense. This violent reaction to violence is not limited to humans. The question (from inside Iran) is: To what extent can your organizations resist the massive violence of governments and other forces of oppression? And basically, he asked: What are practical ways of resisting the behemoth of government and corporate violence? How do you resist such violence?
س- مرد فرهیخته ای در داخل ایران به مارک و همه حاضران سلام فرستاد, از سخنان "بسیار مهم" او تشکر کرد, و گفت که خشونت غالبا به عنوان یک راه دفاع از خود تلقی می شود, و از این گذشته, این واکنش خشونت آمیز به خشونت محدود به انسان نیست. سوال (از داخل ایران) این است: سازمان های شما تا چه حد می توانند در برابر خشونت گسترده دولت ها و دیگر نیروهای سرکوبگر مقاومت کنند؟ و اساساً, راه های عملی مقاومت در برابر غول خشونت حکومتی و شرکت های غول پیکر چیست؟ چگونه در برابر چنین خشونتی مقاومت می کنید؟
A- Mark said that he has often thought about being violent, given that he served 20 years in the U.S. Air Force. He continued: However, I have learned that violence is a poor way to solve problems. Violence tends to result in a never-ending cycle of short-term solutions, interspersed with vicious violence. There are many studies that show the long-term effectiveness of nonviolence. It takes practice to respond with nonviolence. Our mentor, Dr. Lafayette, who worked with Dr. King, says that nonviolence is like an airplane. We cannot fly it unless we learn to be a skilled pilot. For example, when I am nonviolent with my wife, and listen to her, respect her, and love her, we resolve conflicts much quicker. On a social level, I was at a protest where the police were ready to intervene with teargas and clubs. I and others sang peace songs and the police settled down.
ج- مارک گفت که با توجه به اینکه 20 سال در نیروی هوایی ایالات متحده خدمت کرده، عمیقا به خشونت فکر کرده است. او ادامه داد: با این حال آموخته ام که خشونت راه بدی برای حل واقعی مشکلات است. خشونت به یک چرخه بی پایان از راه حل های کوتاه مدت منجر می شود که گاها با خشونت وحشیانه در میامیزد. مطالعات علمی زیادی وجود دارد که اثربخشی طولانی مدت خشونت پرهیزی را نشان می دهد. پاسخ خشونت پرهیز دادن به خشونت مستلزم تمرین است. مربی ما، دکتر لافایت، که با دکتر کینگ کار می کرد، می گوید که خشونت پرهیزی مثل یک هواپیما است. ما نمی توانیم با آن پرواز کنیم مگر اینکه خلبانی ماهر باشیم. به عنوان مثال، وقتی با همسرم خشونت پرهیزانه مدارا می کنم, به او گوش می دهم، به او احترام می گذارم و به او محبت میکنم, تضادهای مابین من خیلی سریعتر حل می شود. در سطح اجتماعی، مثلا من در تظاهراتی بودم که پلیس آماده بود تا با گاز اشک آور و باتوم مداخله کند. من و دیگران آهنگ صلح خواندیم و پلیس آرام گرفت
A- Charles Powell, the (African-American) past President of the Veterans for Peace Chapter in Albuquerque, New Mexico, said that violence is very, very contagious; but so is nonviolence. So, when people are greeted with nonviolence, real violence can sometimes be averted.
ج- چارلز پاول (یک مرد سالخوده آفریقایی-آمریکایی) که رئیس سابق شعبه شهر آلبوکرکی (در ایالت نیومکزیکو) سازمان کهنه سربازان صلح بوده, گفت که خشونت بسیار بسیار مسری است. اما خشونت پرهیزی نیز همینطور است. بنابراین، وقتی مردم با خشونت پرهیزی راستین مواجه میشوند, در چنین شرایطی گاهی می توان از وقوع خشونت های واقعی جلوگیری کرد
Amy Antonucci, a previous guest of our room, said: I just wanted to point out the work of Professor Erica Chenoweth. In an ironic effort to disprove nonviolence, she (who has many books, talks, and articles) studied 100 years of both violent and nonviolent struggles around the world, and found that nonviolence has been more effective than violent struggles. This American woman participant of the room also mentioned that Chenoweth’s most recent major research points out that women-led movements are proving especially successful.
ایمی آنتونوچی, یکی از مهمانان قبلی اتاق, گفت: من فقط می خواستم به کار پروفسور (خانم) اریکا چنووت اشاره کنم. در تلاشی با هدف رد خشونت پرهیزی، او (که کتاب ها، گفتگوها و مقالات زیادی دارد) 100 سال مبارزات خشونت آمیز و خشونت پرهیز در سراسر جهان را به دقت مطالعه کرد, و در نتیجه دریافت که خشونت پرهیزی از مبارزات خشونت آمیز مؤثرتر بوده است. همین شرکت کننده (زن آمریکایی) خاطرنشان کرد که تحقیقات اخیرش نشان می دهد که جنبش های تحت رهبری زنان علی الخصوص موفق بوده اند
Mark said: I have found the same to be true in our household. My powerful wife and mother-in-law (and other powerful, yet peaceful women among my relatives) have reminded me gently when I have made mistakes.
مارک گفت: در خانواده خود من نیز این موفق عمل کردن زنان مشهود است. همسر قدرتمندم و مادرش (و سایر زنان قدرتمند و در عین حال صلحجو در میان نزدیکانم) با نرمش به من گفته اند که چه زمانی دچار اشتباه بوده ام
Moji joined the people in both rooms in cheering for women, and said Dr. Chenoweth (a woman scholar) has joined Professors Noam Chomsky and Cornel West, in being a major endorser of his other project: The Circles of Nonviolence,
مجتبی در تشویق کردن زنان به حاضران هر دو اتاق پیوست و گفت خیلی خرسندم که خانم دکتر اریکا چنووت (یک محقق بسیار موفق زن) در حمایت از پروژه دیگرم, یعنی حلقه های خشونت پرهیزی به اساتید بزرگ, پروفسور نوم چامسکی و کورنل وست پیوسته است
Q- The learned man from inside Iran asked this philosophical question: Is violence a cause or an effect? I am interested in learning about the causes of violence; Why does violence happen? There are many causes of violence. But when we deeply consider the violence by the people who are confronted with the vicious violence of regimes (and huge corporations) we realize that it is a reaction to violence. Therefore, with that understanding reactive violence would be understood better.
س- مرد فرهیخته داخل ایران این سؤال فلسفی را مطرح کرد که آیا خشونت علت است یا معلول؟ او گفت: من علاقمند به یادگیری بیشتر در باره علل بروز خشونت هستم. چرا خشونت اتفاق می افتد؟ دلایل بسیاری برای وقوع خشونت وجود دارد. ما وقتی خشونت مردمی را که با خشونت وحشیانه رژیم‌ها (و شرکت‌های بزرگ) مواجه میشوند عمیقا در نظر می‌گیریم، متوجه می‌شویم خشونت شان یک واکنش به خشونت است. بنابراین، با این تعمق، خشونت واکنشی بهتر درک می شود
Amy (our guest in two weeks) said: Being half-Irish, I personally feel a lot of understanding for those who react violently when they are being repressed. However, I also believe violence is not getting us the world we want. Nonviolence will be more effective at building a culture in which we all survive.
ایمی (مهمان ما در دو هفته) گفت: من شخصاً به دلیل اینکه نیمه ایرلندی هستم درک زیادی نسبت به کسانی دارم که وقتی سرکوب می شوند واکنش خشونت آمیز نشان می دهند. با این حال، من معتقدم که خشونت ما را به دنیایی که میخواهیم نمی‌رساند. خشونت پرهیزی در ساختن فرهنگی که همه ما در آن زنده و بالنده بمانیم مؤثرتر خواهد بود
Q- By Moji: We do not judge them, while not endorsing them. Right?
س- توسط مجتبی: اگر چه ما آنها را قضاوت نمی کنیم، ولی تأییدشان نیز نمی کنیم. درست؟
A- By Amy: Yes. We must understand and be open to each person, even if we do not agree with them and their behavior.
ج- توسط ایمی: بله. ما باید تک تک افراد جامعه را درک کنیم و پذیرای آنها باشیم، حتی اگر با رفتارشان موافق نیستیم
A- By Moji: If we truly understand the “why” of violent behavior, that is a very important aspect of nonviolence.
ج- توسط مجتبی: اینکه ما واقعاً "چرای" رفتار خشونت آمیز را درک کنیم، یک بعد بسیار مهم از خشونت پرهیزی است
A- By Amy: That connects with the "Beloved Community" and the Agape Love that Mark talked about.
ج- توسط ایمی: این معنا با "جامعه محبوب" و عشق (بدون چشمداشت) آگاپه, که مارک در مورد آن صحبت کرد ارتباط دارد
A- By Ms. Cara Bissell, who will be our room's guest in May 2023: I am thinking of when nonviolence worked beautifully five years ago on the University of Arizona campus. Opposing groups of protesters faced each other. A woman had a pistol strapped to her waist. It was legal, real (not a toy gun) and loaded; and in fact both sides had guns. As Veterans for Peace volunteers we acted as peace-keepers, and we caused both sides to laugh together, and thus avoided the outbreak of violence.
ج- توسط خانم کارا بیسل, که در ماه مه مهمان اتاق ما خواهد بود: من به این خاطره دارم فکر می کنم که پنج سال پیش در پردیس دانشگاه آریزونا، خشونت پرهیزی به زیبایی عمل کرد. گروه های معترض مخالف در مقابل یکدیگر قرار داشتند. زنی یک تپانچه به کمرش بسته بود, قانونی، واقعی (نه یک اسلحه اسباب بازی) و تپانچه اش پر از گلوله بود؛ و در واقع هر دو طرف اسلحه داشتند. ما به عنوان کهنه سربازان صلح طلب داوطلبانه در نقش حافظان صلح عمل کردیم, و باعث شدیم که به جای یک درگیری خطرناک, هر دو طرف منازعه با هم بخندند, و در نتیجه از بروز خشونت جلوگیری شد
Moji said that Cara is the President of the Veterans for Peace Chapter in Tucson, Arizona.
مجتبی گفت که کارا رئیس سازمان کهنه سربازان صلح طلب شعبه شهر توسان ایالت آریزونا است
Mark said: We all have the capability for violence and nonviolence, a violent wolf and a peaceful wolf. The victor will be the wolf we feed. Violence is self-destructive. I do not have time to hate. We should understand violence, but not endorse it, and be humble and compassionate.
مارک گفت: همه ما هم توانایی خشونتگری و هم خشونت پرهیزی را داریم، یک گرگ خشن و یک گرگ صلحجو. پیروز گرگی خواهد بود که ما به آن غذا می دهیم. خشونت خود-ویرانگر است. من برای متنفر بودن وقت ندارم. ما باید خشونت را درک کنیم، اما آن را تایید نکنیم؛ و باید فروتن و دلسوز باشیم
Moji said: With that kind of compassion, the fire of conflict will be extinguished eventually.
مجتبی گفت: با اینگونه دلسوزی آتش درگیری سرانجام خاموش می شود
Mark said: If you are unsure about nonviolence, try it in your own life and see what happens.
مارک گفت: اگر در باره موثر بودن خشونت پرهیزی مطمئن نیستید، آن را در زندگی خود امتحان کنید و ببینید چه اتفاقی می افتد
Moji said: Give peace a chance! This has been a major chant in lots of demonstrations in the past four decades in which I have participated as an activist.
مجتبی گفت: به صلح فرصت نفس کشیدن بده! این شعار اصلی تظاهرات های زیادی در طول چهار دهه گذشته بوده است, که من به عنوان یک فعال صلح در آنها شرکت کرده ام
Moji mentioned that in our room next week Mark will discuss the six steps of Kingian nonviolence.
مجتبی اشاره کرد که هفته آینده مارک در اتاق ما شش قدم اجرایی خشونت پرهیزی مکتب مارتین لوتر کینگ را تشریح خواهد کرد
Mark said: The six principles from today are the will and the six steps are the skills.
مارک گفت: شش اصلی که امروز ازشان نام بردم اراده, و شش قدم (هفته آینده) مهارت تحقق رفتار خشونت پرهیز مکتب کینگ را تشکیل میدهد
Moji’s paraphrase: Those six steps are the ways to manifest the six principles in the external world.
تعبیر مجتبی: آن شش قدم راه هایی برای تجلی این شش اصل در دنیای بیرونی است
Amy said: I am very happy to be with the people of Iranian Nonviolence.
ایمی گفت: بسیار خوشحالم که در کنار عزیزان "خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی" هستم
An elderly American man, who has been a peace activist for five decades, said: I just tuned in, but I am sure the room went well; and Moji thanked him.
یک مرد مسن آمریکایی که به مدت پنج دهه فعال صلح بوده، گفت: اگر چه من الان به اتاق ملحق شده ام, ولی مطمئن هستم که اتاق به خوبی پیش رفته است؛ و مجتبی از او تشکر کرد
Q- By Mark: I am curious how Iranians are handling the current violence in their country?
س- نوشته مارک: من کنجکاو هستم بدانم که ایرانیان چگونه با خشونت جاری در کشورشان برخورد می کنند؟
A- By the learned man from inside Iran: We need to be cognizant of removing the causes for violence. We should deal with causes and not effects. He hoped that he may be able to contribute to the room in the coming weeks with regard to the many causes of violence. He also wished everyone a Happy year (the Persian new year 1402), which begins in about a day and a half with the Spring equinox; and he wished everyone in the world a year without violence, and with peace and happiness. And he also wished that in the new year Iran would see less violence, and more peace and reconciliation.
ج- توسط مرد فرهیخته داخل ایران: باید نسبت به رفع علل خشونت آگاه باشیم, یعنی ما باید با علت ها برخورد کنیم نه معلول ها. او امیدوار بود که بتواند در هفته های آینده با توجه ویژه به دلایل متعدد بروز خشونت به غنای محتوای اتاق کمک کند. به همچنین, او سال جدید را به همه تبریک گفت (سال نو ایرانی 1402), که حدود یک روز و نیم دیگر با شروع مرحله اعتدال بهاری آغاز می شود؛ و او برای همه مردم جهان سالی بدون خشونت و با صلح و شادی آرزو کرد--و این امید را ابراز کرد که در سال نو ایران خشونت کمتر و صلح و آشتی بیشتر تجربه کند
Before Moji had the ZOOM attendees say Goodbye in Persian (and end the Clubhouse room), he said that he hopes to speak about Iranian Nonviolence at three April events organized by the Veterans for Peace chapters in Tucson, Albuquerque, and Santa Fe. And in these talks he would be cheering on the peace activists (especially in the two New Mexico cities) for their week-long campaign of nonviolent protests (near a U.S. Air Force base in the State of New Mexico) demanding an end to drone warfare, especially by the U.S.
قبل از اینکه مجتبی از شرکت کنندگان اتاق زوم بخواهد که به فارسی خداحافظی کنند (و پیش از اینکه او اتاق کلاب هاوس را به پایان برساند) گفت که امیدوار است بتواند در جلسات حضوری ماه آوریل (که قرار است این سخنرانی های او توسط شعبات سازمان "کهنه سربازان صلح طلب" در شهرهای توسان، آلبوکرکی و سانتافه سازماندهی شود) درباره خشونت پرهیزی ایرانی صحبت کند. و مجتبی گفت که در این گفتگوها فعالان صلح را (به ویژه در دو شهر ایالت نیومکزیکو) به خاطر کمپین یک هفته ای اعتراضات خشونت پرهیزشان (در نزدیکی یک پایگاه نیروی هوایی ایالات متحده در این ایالت) تشویق خواهد کرد, زیرا آنها خواستار پایان یافتن "جنگ پهبادی" به ویژه توسط آمریکا هستند
PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
صلح ممکن است
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